tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post2049845718865839978..comments2024-03-27T21:54:31.247-07:00Comments on Web Series Today: The Censor Strikes Backmodelmotionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12005411582406219607noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-37326216377261228242008-10-01T19:36:00.000-07:002008-10-01T19:36:00.000-07:00Dramatic as fat,black flies bumping into the windo...Dramatic as fat,black flies bumping into the window....it is all about the drama after all.LordGreystoke422https://www.blogger.com/profile/04721315527610732787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-34213832713804164972008-10-01T12:23:00.000-07:002008-10-01T12:23:00.000-07:00LGS is an admin now? Oh lordy.He's such a drama qu...LGS is an admin now? Oh lordy.<BR/>He's such a drama queen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-60547479995269700592008-10-01T11:33:00.000-07:002008-10-01T11:33:00.000-07:00Qtec, we can give you 700 billion reasons why othe...Qtec, we can give you 700 billion reasons why other systems do not always work perfectly. <BR/><BR/>LG15 Today has been an "experiment" and a learning experience from day 1. We actually admire how well most have risen to the opportunity of taking personal responsibility within a collaborative environment. From time to time new authors and new video series raise new concerns and cause us to reflect. <BR/><BR/>To assume that others do not consider your opinions carefully would be wrong but to assume that consensus is always correct would be equally wrong as we stated elsewhere. At some point the concept of "reasonable" comes into play and I think LG15 Today has accomplished that fairly well over its short life given the amount of freedom it attempts to offer.<BR/><BR/>In terms of the tone of the blogspot it appears we still have some fine tuning to do on the L.O.V.E. algorithm but please remember it is still in beta test.<BR/><BR/>----------<BR/>Here is a copy of what we posted elsewhere:<BR/><BR/>The words "democracy" and "republic" tend to be loaded words within the political spectrum. We have previously described how the blog works and neither "democracy" or "republic" would accurately describe that process. We think it is better to look at each poster as an individual who has been granted a right to post based on an acceptance by them of personal responsibility for their post. If a poster either deliberately or inadvertently post something that does harm then the post is treated accordingly. For example, if it contains copyright infringement then the post may be edited. While we want each author to feel free to post what they want we also want them to be accountable to the community. That is in interactive process and it is intended to consider both minority opinions and majority opinions. We try to listen to all the feedback we get from the community but in the end the blogspot needs to go with what seems "reasonable" given the nature and intent of LG15 Today. This may be a new way of thinking to some who have grown up in societies with a particular view of the World and their own personal opinion of how a society is "supposed to work." However LG15 Today grew out of the notion of individual freedom that developed on lonelygirl15 comments and it is set up in a way where we attempt to maintain those values by following one simple principle: "do no harm", as oulined previoiusly.modelmotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12005411582406219607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-78264292620835935652008-10-01T10:33:00.000-07:002008-10-01T10:33:00.000-07:00I like the sarcasm about the sarcasm - you don't s...I like the sarcasm about the sarcasm - you don't see that every day.<BR/><BR/>I tend to agree a disclaimer does very little to insure safety in itself, but it was the best compromise I could find in this case to address the concerns raised, and get the content back on the blog.<BR/><BR/>It's a bit of a 'wave' at the issue, but at least gives concerned viewers some small assurance or clarification from the video maker about the intended message, which was vague in case and might be viewed as threatening but not intended to be. <BR/><BR/>It is never possible to guarantee sincerity, but until there is good reason to assume otherwise, what choice is there but to take someone's statements at face value?<BR/><BR/>I did the best I could, as I have said. It was a grey situation.QtheChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16218758159201317186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-22442518867281739522008-10-01T10:16:00.000-07:002008-10-01T10:16:00.000-07:00Just to clarify one thing... At the beginning of m...Just to clarify one thing... At the beginning of my earlier comment, when I wrote:<BR/><BR/>"Here's a thought.<BR/>Q, start your own blogspot. Absolute power man, think about it.<BR/>You could be a video censoring god!<BR/>To hell with any messy consensus or community spirit.<BR/>You could write 800 word comments every single day and squash anyone who fails to read the whole thing or (god forbid) disagree with you.<BR/>You could make disclaimers mandatory. Every video, every comment, every post could start with a disclaimer. Hell, you could write a list of 800 word disclaimers and make it a multiple choice thing...if, of course, you decide to allow choices.<BR/>DUDE! You could do entire video series with nothing but disclaimers! They're very important y'know. Even if someone were a menace, a simple disclaimer would end their threat immediately. You know how honest people are. They put a disclaimer up, it's as good as gold. No worries from then on.<BR/>Yeah, start a blog. Rule the world.<BR/>Go Quince!"<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>I meant that as a sarcastic remark and did not intend it to be a sincere statement. I just wanted to clarify that since when I went back and re-checked my comment, I realized it could easily be read either way given all the qualifiers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-68400438872903068972008-10-01T10:14:00.000-07:002008-10-01T10:14:00.000-07:00Here's a thought.Q, start your own blogspot. Absol...Here's a thought.<BR/>Q, start your own blogspot. Absolute power man, think about it.<BR/>You could be a video censoring god!<BR/> To hell with any messy consensus or community spirit.<BR/> You could write 800 word comments every single day and squash anyone who fails to read the whole thing or (god forbid) disagree with you.<BR/> You could make disclaimers mandatory. Every video, every comment, every post could start with a disclaimer. Hell, you could write a list of 800 word disclaimers and make it a multiple choice thing...if, of course, you decide to allow choices.<BR/> DUDE! You could do entire video series with nothing but disclaimers! They're very important y'know. Even if someone were a menace, a simple disclaimer would end their threat immediately. You know how honest people are. They put a disclaimer up, it's as good as gold. No worries from then on.<BR/>Yeah, start a blog. Rule the world.<BR/>Go Quince!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-90887463689848484242008-10-01T09:34:00.000-07:002008-10-01T09:34:00.000-07:00Just to clarify one thing... At the beginning of m...Just to clarify one thing... At the beginning of my earlier comment, when I wrote:<BR/><BR/><BR/>"Thank you Modelmotion, for taking the time to thoughtfully and coherently address the full range of issues at hand. As always, I know I and the rest of this community appreciate your wisdom, ... {snip} ... in the main of your intention and vision. "<BR/><BR/><BR/>I meant that as a sincere statement and did not intend it to be a sarcastic remark. I just wanted to clarify that since when I went back and re-checked my comment, I realized it could easily be read either way given all the qualifiers.QtheChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16218758159201317186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-37784670528974916672008-10-01T07:46:00.000-07:002008-10-01T07:46:00.000-07:00Wow, I am not going to even bother signing in to l...Wow, I am not going to even bother signing in to leave this comment. It's Mike Howell btw. But Qthec is without a doubt one of the most whiney, acting like a baby when he doesn't get his way people I have ever seen.<BR/><BR/>His passive agressive way of writing is laughable. He complains about insults said against him when I could post a dozen insults he has written in the last 2 days. <BR/><BR/>He's acting like such a brat that I don't even feel the ability to write with any kind of respect. He makes me want to just point and laugh and stick my tongue out. For he is not worth any intelligent response in my book.<BR/><BR/>I hope this stuff ends soon or I might as well delete this blog from my favourites as I have no fun coming here anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-64268535506230918252008-10-01T07:19:00.000-07:002008-10-01T07:19:00.000-07:00Thank you Modelmotion, for taking the time to thou...Thank you Modelmotion, for taking the time to thoughtfully and coherently address the full range of issues at hand. As always, I know I and the rest of this community appreciate your wisdom, not in all it's particulars or practical implications, but in the main of your intention and vision. <BR/><BR/>I should note that had you bothered to respond to my many requests for your advice and assistance through this period, I might have let you know that I have already inquired by email a couple of days ago as to the feelings of those targeted by the "Denial" video, and am awaiting a response.<BR/><BR/>While respecting your sincerity and passionate ideals, I think there are serious blindspots, that your ideal notion of "community concensus" is a rare bird I have yet to actually see though it is often claimed - that kind of democracy is messy and imperfect favoring the few and the loud, and brings with it an inherent tendency to squash the concerns of the minority rather than seeking a compromise that serves the whole community. There are toxins in your purple koolaid.<BR/><BR/>Just consider the down side of mob-rule and the concept known as the "tyranny of the majority" (at the risk of mentiong that heavily loaded word again... I don't know how else to concisely name the concept it describes). These are fundamental issues of freedom and democracy, and I do not mean to try to elaborate, but only to remind you of these ideas, and the lessons available from our own imperfect governmental history, and it's antecedents.<BR/><BR/>I have expressed my views about recent events at length on Milo's video, and will try instead to focus on more general issues here. Your post, and the emphasis it places certainly makes sense as a guiding philosophy for this blog, with its strength in stressing individual expression, individual responsibility, and inclusiveness, and I will do what I can to support it going forward in support of those values, essentially by trying to stay out of the way of these kinds of decisions and letting them play out as them may.<BR/><BR/>I'm tired of the conflicts, and tired of being misunderstood. I'm also disappointed in many of my friends, and their williness to assert and propagate false assumptions about my intentions. I'm disappointed that blatant and extensive personal attacks and outright lies about myself and my character have been quietly tolerated and allowed to stand, despite objections raised by myself and others, where in the past such material not directed at me was summarily removed from this blog. Why have these attacks and jeering insults been tolerated with little or no support for the requests for civility? Because some here in influential positions had an axe to grind, to the detriment of all.<BR/><BR/>It is also quite clear that there has been a shift in influence now, mine diminishing, and others' rising - that is the nature of things when there is conflict, and I'm actually okay with that notion. Leadership needs to change over time for an institution to remain healthy and vibrant. Sometimes a fresh set of foolishness and mistakes brings growth. It's not all bad, and may have been a necessary correction, since obviously my best efforts and intentions engendered much ill-will, unfairly perhaps, but unhappiness nonetheless.<BR/><BR/>I wish the community luck in bearing the consequences of this shift, as I anticipate a brief interlude of euphoria as the dominating faction celebrates, only to fall into a lull of normal activity until the next chaotic episode of drama. The process you are trying for insures it. Decisions are going to be painful to reach when there are conflicting views and diffuse, poorly defined authority to reach a conclusive resolution. Will the concerns and needs of the entire community be best served by continuing to insist on instituting such a chaotic system? It didn't work out so well this time. The problem I had was that I tried to offer leadership, without a clearly recognized basis (the basis was historical, not instituted) or widely recognized role.<BR/><BR/>It's obvious that's what people want sometimes, someone who can be the final arbiter. Look at those who, in feeling frustrated with me, have been saying "wait for Modelmotion" and "Modelmotion says so, so it is so" or those such as LordGreyStoke, asking you to exercise power (which he says he so abhors), by kicking me off the blog. But your method is more indirect, and I have to appreciate the tenacity with which you apply yourself to that philosophy, mm, while pretending you are not in an authority position at all. Just be careful about your philosophy's limitations, and your own inflexibility. There's a reason for systems with elected leaders, with rules in place such that they are replaced periodically. Something to consider down the road, perhaps, if Modelmotion allows it, I mean, if the community wills it.<BR/><BR/>It's "his blog" after all, or so I hear from those who have wanted to get around me without dealing with me on the issues, mixed with Modelmotion's consistent insistence that it is the "community's blog." It's both and more, actually. I myself certainly have had a huge vested interest and commitment to this shared resource, as you know. Is it my blog? I wouldn't say so, but I would say I care about what happens and how it is used and misused, and have worked from the blog's inception to create what we have here according to my own ideals and vision of inclusiveness and responsibility, and in that sense, I feel ownership of it. I hate seeing it misused.<BR/><BR/>Who will be the next focal point of mass hysteria and venom? What will be the next polarizing issue, and what factions will emerge? Who will decide what is the "community concensus" when one groups says it is clearly this, and others say it is clearly that? Drama is guaranteed. <BR/><BR/>Already LordGreyStoke, with his three days of experience and one ranting article contributed to the blog, has taken it upon himself to use his shiny new admin bit (that I set for him yesterday) to implement the "community concensus" as determined by Milowent according to an arbitrary voting period within a part of one day, and Milowent's assesement of the majority view. Nothing to worry about with that process.<BR/><BR/>It's an interesting experiment to be sure, and I'm not unwilling to be surprised. I just have my doubts. I expect there will be some generally successful interludes marked by spectacular explosive failures, hurt feelings, and fallout. The hope is that there is enough basic good will in people to finally trump whatever system or non-system is in place.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I tried hard here to do the right things for the right reasons, and to serve the good of the entire community. I have, in this instance, been overridden by the vocal mob. LordGreyStoke and friends have restored the TunnelRatatat videos, with no attempt to address the original concerns I raised about the content and others have echoed, ignoring the dishonesty and contempt TunnelRatatat has demonstrated for these concerns and my efforts to address them. So be it.<BR/><BR/>I am sorry for those whose concerns were not addressed by this result, and for the reduction in standards of responsibility in sharing and promoting content this particular decision represents. It's wrong.<BR/><BR/>I'd appreciate, personally, a cessation of personal attacks and dipictions, in whatever form, directed at me.QtheChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16218758159201317186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-10383266393246077922008-10-01T04:00:00.000-07:002008-10-01T04:00:00.000-07:00Well, I think with that comment the videos should ...Well, I think with that comment the videos should be restored to the fullest. Modelmotion has clarified how he feels the Do Not Harm policy applies in this case. I encourage Q to restore the videos now. In any case, if no one else does, I will be posting the next tunnelratatat video myself, as long as somehow the video doesn't fall below my personal posting guidelines. Hopefully, this shall end this matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-78007221381913518802008-09-30T23:59:00.000-07:002008-09-30T23:59:00.000-07:00Do No HarmThis blogspot has one clear guideline: "...Do No Harm<BR/>This blogspot has one clear guideline: "do no harm". In most situations this guide allows a great deal of freedom. It allows each author to post what they want in a way where they are personally responsible for the content of their post. From time to time we add and edit each others posts to improve them and provide additional information in the spirit of collaboration. We allow anyone to leave comments on the blogspot and we even allow anonymous. All of this is inherent to the philosophy of freedom that grew up on lonelygirl15 "comments" under the "stewardship" of WatchingOne and was built into this blogspot from its inception.<BR/><BR/>We expect each author to live up to that responsibility and ultimately they in turn are responsible to the community who will always make it quite clear when a post crosses the line. The "do no harm" guide does lend itself to different interpretations, but it is meant in the sense that to cross the line harm should be tangible and substantial. <BR/><BR/>Examples of harm can range from copyright infringement to personal liable, from the result of the creators leaving a mic on to a massive spoiler that would destroy a series for others. Sometimes their will be "fuzzy areas" where it is difficult to tell what is in game and what is out of game; what is a spoiler and what is not. We had one massive comments flame war that revolved around that theme. In the end we need to put our faith in the community. <BR/><BR/>For the most part when the community has asked an author to remove a post for one reason or another they have done it on a voluntary basis as should be the case. On occasion a post may be taken down on a temporary basis in order to provide time to consult with the author and the community regarding the post. However it is the author of the post, subject to the community response to the post, that is ultimately responsible for what is presented on LG15 Today.<BR/><BR/>It is the balance between individual judgment and our collective wisdom that makes the blogspot such a powerful tool. Having freedom is a great responsibility and we trust everyone who is an author on the blogspot to use it wisely. <BR/><BR/>There will always be new issues that arise and it is important that we listen to each other and understand each others concerns. However in the end LG15 Today only works if each of us is individually responsible for our contributions. It is not a blank check to do anything you want but rather an invite to engage with a really wonderful community and participate in a very special form of collaboration.<BR/>-----------<BR/>-"To cross the line harm should be tangible and substantial". We fail to see how this criteria has been met within this series of videos.<BR/><BR/>-Given that tangible and substantial harm has not been established we think the posts should be restored to their original condition based on the fact their has not been a significant outcry against the videos.<BR/><BR/>-We understand that not everyone is going to approve or enjoy every video on the blogspot but we do respect the ability of any community member to post what they sees fit. This is subject to their personal accountability for anything posted, and also subject to the broader reaction of the community to the subject matter.<BR/><BR/>-It is not our role to make demands on authors on the blogspot because that could have a dampening effect on the creative process. If an individual welcomes such discussions then that is one thing but to place demands on them could have a chilling effect especially in the case of ARGs. As such we must evaluate the creative effort placed in front of us by the creator subject to their own willingness to provide additional information on a fully voluntary basis. <BR/><BR/>-If anyone at Eqal Inc. feels that this video series is a personal threat they can take the matter up with YouTube which hosts the videos. They can also cc: LG15today@gmail.com so that we are aware of any concerns they might have.modelmotionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12005411582406219607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-83595781443008492722008-09-30T21:42:00.000-07:002008-09-30T21:42:00.000-07:0012 yeah4 nay 1 abstention12 yeah<BR/>4 nay <BR/>1 abstentionmilowenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970503858469369658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-2109996691117348142008-09-30T19:55:00.000-07:002008-09-30T19:55:00.000-07:00Just out of curiosity, why doesn't everyone involv...Just out of curiosity, why doesn't everyone involved in this have it out on BreeFM. All you need is someone to moderate the discussion so it doesn't turn into an all out shout fest. I think it would be interesting and make for a good radio show, I mean internet radio show.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-83962978136024885232008-09-30T19:54:00.000-07:002008-09-30T19:54:00.000-07:00Here was the extent of my reign of terror.I asked ...Here was the extent of my reign of terror.<BR/><BR/>I asked QtheC if he would mind having his admin status revoked here at the blog.<BR/><BR/>I asked him this via IRC and email.<BR/><BR/>I will not add his response here, because I do not publicly quite private communications.<BR/><BR/>I only accepted the aforementioned admin status to demonstrate to QtheC just how one should operate when they decide to change a person's status within the community. I have now reverted my own status to that of "reader."ApotheosisAZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02691862744201801350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-5982304737907097422008-09-30T19:52:00.000-07:002008-09-30T19:52:00.000-07:00This is the first time I ever regretted comment 43...This is the first time I ever regretted comment 436. Not that it actually has anything to do it with this mess. <BR/><BR/>I just don't have the time to read everything so if I'm wrong let me know. QtheC pulled the videos again, because TR changed the disclaimer. People aren't happy about anything involving this whole mess. There is an unofficial vote.<BR/><BR/>My vote is, videos should not have been removed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-34649524894414117022008-09-30T19:39:00.000-07:002008-09-30T19:39:00.000-07:00Correction, Apo is an admin too now, but I had not...Correction, Apo is an admin too now, but I had nothing to do with it, so when his reign of terror begins, don't come crying to me.QtheChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16218758159201317186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-83968103449544664782008-09-30T19:25:00.000-07:002008-09-30T19:25:00.000-07:00My vote is Nay because I'm a bit fan of compromise...My vote is Nay because I'm a bit fan of compromise. The disclaimer may sound pointless, but if it keeps the peace then what's the harm.<BR/><BR/>Brooke you're not the only one who tires of the personal attacks. LGS always seems to take everything to the extreme.<BR/><BR/>(Assuming as a reader I can have a vote)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-26889074695304173292008-09-30T18:57:00.000-07:002008-09-30T18:57:00.000-07:00fyi, after some lively chats in IRC, (something ab...fyi, after some lively chats in IRC, (something about tool and hammer and a stonewall, but I forget) LordGreyStoke and JenniPowell have had their "admin" bits turned on by me.<BR/><BR/>They have now joined the ranks of the mightiest of mighties here on the blog.<BR/><BR/>Apo has so far reserved his status as a reader/commenter (not an author even), despite some embarrassing begging from the masses.<BR/><BR/>Heaven protect us. ;)QtheChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16218758159201317186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-66677146629273884482008-09-30T17:49:00.000-07:002008-09-30T17:49:00.000-07:00Well, based on the limited information here (and t...Well, based on the limited information here (and truthfully, I look at this blog pretty much everyday. I'd never noticed any TR videos until this controversy), and based on what I saw in the actual videos themselves (Yes, controversy sparks interest.), I gotta wonder what the big deal is in the first place. How are these videos considered threatening?<BR/> Whatever the case. If the videos were accepted in the first place, they should stay. It's unfair to post them, have a disagreement over some silly disclaimer and pull them as you see fit.<BR/> QtheC, I noticed you commented on a YT video. Taking the fight to a different ring so to speak. Uncalled for and also unfair imo. Interestingly enough, your comment wasn't deleted.<BR/>I vote yay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-43589788477364929552008-09-30T16:43:00.000-07:002008-09-30T16:43:00.000-07:00I vote yay.I vote yay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-23677442174914163582008-09-30T16:09:00.000-07:002008-09-30T16:09:00.000-07:00haha. he has a tendency to inspire that.haha. he has a tendency to inspire that.milowenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970503858469369658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-8127146744399877322008-09-30T16:05:00.000-07:002008-09-30T16:05:00.000-07:00LOL I seem to have launched a personal vendetta ag...LOL I seem to have launched a personal vendetta against LGS's personal vendetta...XDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-36351613267577835752008-09-30T16:02:00.000-07:002008-09-30T16:02:00.000-07:00thanks brookiebabe, your vote is recorded properly...thanks brookiebabe, your vote is recorded properly then.milowenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970503858469369658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-3657471608954748162008-09-30T15:45:00.000-07:002008-09-30T15:45:00.000-07:00I saw that. Didn't make much of an impression. Not...I saw that. Didn't make much of an impression. Not as much as Greystokes...stuff. As I said, I think he's handled himself rather well. And if he's not allowed one reaction against the name calling...I personally would not have handled myself nearly as well, nor would I have taken my video down so that it wouldn't bother people who didn't want to be.<BR/><BR/>And yes, not that it matters against the sea of "yeas," which I could say something about (oh, don't worry, nothing insulting, lest GS come after me next), but my vote is a nay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2754228927937283278.post-24410861065904585442008-09-30T15:40:00.000-07:002008-09-30T15:40:00.000-07:009 yeah3 nay (including brookiebabie, based on abov...9 yeah<BR/>3 nay (including brookiebabie, based on above post, being cautious)<BR/>1 abstention<BR/><BR/>brookie - not to get into details, but qthec did return a volley against lordgrey in a video he later removed.milowenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970503858469369658noreply@blogger.com