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Wednesday, July 9, 2008

The Question We All Want Answered

immortal1 Says:
July 9th, 2008 at 4:59 pm

I’ve been actually agonizing on whether I should get involved in this discussion again. It’s hard not talking about the past. but I think Apo said what needed to be said in that regard. I really believe a lot of hurt feelings could be avoided if you were absolutely clear about what you mean by your EQAL concept. Miles said, “The most important thing to us is the interaction between the characters, the show, the community members, and the community videos.”

Based on past history I take this to mean you want community members to make video comments as themselves and offer opinions and advice. Unfortunately this stifles creativity. You have an active In Development section with people who want to be their own characters with their own stories. I’d venture to say the majority of the videos you receive are not video comments.

So my question to you, point blank is this: is it your policy that no EQAL created character will interact or acknowledge via video, a character not created by EQAL? If “no” then why hasn’t it happened?

Either way is totally fine with me but let’s make it clear, interaction is limited to non-characters and there will never be an officially recognized extended universe.

Read other questions for the Creators on insideLG15


  1. So, Miles, what is it: yes or no?

  2. Maybe I've missed something and if this sounds rude I'm sorry. But why is it the creators responsibly to host/help you tell your own story with your own characters. They begged, borrowed, pleaded and maxed out their credit cards to get LG15 started. They took a big chance. And now you want them to take a chance with your stuff, why?

    To me it seems they've always wanted people, you put it best so I'll just quote it: "want community members to make video comments as themselves and offer opinions and advice." But hardly anyone ever has. They finally got people to do it by leaving messages on snapvine. But I'm sure they would prefer videos.

    So someone tell me, please. Why should the creators help you guys out with your own stuff. If you think it's good, take the same risk they did. Stop expecting someone else to do it for you.

    Again, sorry if this sounds rude.

  3. seriously, for once, I think the COMMUNITY is being whack. Will you all just CHILL OUT? No one's taking away your right to make a fan series. They just aren't going to have a major character be a part of it. Who cares? The character's they create are THEIR intellectual property, just like the ones YOU make are YOURS.

    So WHAT if they arent going to go around, setting fanfics on a pedestal and waving them around for all to see. Who cares?? No one said they even have to ACKNOWLEDGE fanfics in the first place.

    It's a FAN SERIES. If you want your stuff viewed, make an ORIGINAL story, and start shelling out your OWN money to advertize it.

    Some of you act like you're all up in arms and ready to crucify the entire LG15 staff just because your fan vids aren't going to get the "pimped" spot of a thumbnail on a column. Too bad, so sad.

    What exactly do you all WANT? Them to take every fan video ever created and slap it on the front of the youtube page??

  4. Anon--I don't know if you're rude but reading between the lines you do seem somewhat ignorant of the history of the situation. Anytime anyone makes a video they are basically providing additional content for the site. It's one thing if you have time to kill and just want to ramble in front of the camera but when you start creating characters and stories it gets to be hard work and is time consuming. There has to be some kind of trade off. Normally it's enough to be seen but that really isn't a benefit of uploading to the site anymore. Now if your story is a derivative meaning it takes place in the lonelygirl15, being mentioned, acknowledged or any interaction by the show would make it worth it. It also is the kind of thing that might get someone to check out your videos. Plus if you're derivative you can't exactly go it alone. It's not about getting something for nothing. I hope that clears it up a little.

  5. "There has to be some kind of trade off."

    Says who? If you were to make a LOST fan series, you wouldn't expect them to show off your stuff, would you?

    The fact is that the creators were at least KIND enough to even ALLOW fan vids in the FIRST place. But now, all of a sudden, we've got people running around thinking their fan-fics are all that, and that they DESERVE to have their work on the front page. New Flash: you don't.

    If you REALLY feel like your series is the best ever, then make your OWN website and make your OWN audience, and use your OWN money. Because, believe it or not, (especially with the quality of some of the crap videos I see on the response column) acting like your fan series is so GREAT that you DESERVE to get a pimp spot is the TEXTBOOK CASE of wanting something for nothing. If you REALLY want to get recognized for your great content-making abilities, then do something original...

  6. woah. The Cs promised interaction if people would make videos way back when. Immortal1 is asking this question for clarification, to see who is eligible for this interaction.

    With LOST, no one on LOST said please make videos and we will interact with you. If you made a LOST video, you would be making it without a promise from producers of the series to have a chance to interact. That is not the case hear, and immortal1 is trying to figure it out if its just regular people who do videos or if characters of spinoff series or individial series are eligible.

    There is a trade off as these fan fic videos do pick up non-lg15 viewers and bring them to the site. Independent series who use the lg15 forums as their discussion boards also bring people to the lg15 site who may not otherwise be there. To just discount the fan fic series as The Creators simply being kind to the little people and letting them do videos ignores what these series do to bring people to lg15, and to help them.

  7. It strikes me that Cassie is an interesting topic. This character was mentioned initially in a canon video ("Swimming," or something near it I think), and has the intriguing tag question, "Whatever happened to that girl, Cassie?"

    Fans picked up on this 'hook' and spun stories from it, and the Creators at some point said that they would not themselves further pursue Cassie's story, so that fanfic could, in a sense, take over the character, with several alternative portrayals.

    Perhaps one way future fan created content could connect to the show is to seek out other such hooks, and perhaps negotiate a bit with the Creators on areas that start out canon, but will, like Cassie, be left to fans to develop.

    The Creators could even deliberately offer such story 'hooks' periodically, explicitly inviting fans in a 'storytellers forum' to flesh out the related stories. Then it would be up to interested fans to negotiate ownership or overlapping story lines within the designated fan story area (i.e. A canon originated hook like Cassie might have multiple versions like comic book superheros, but original characters added by fans such as MessyNessy would be 'owned' by individual content producers).

    This idea of intentional provision open hooks is a little different than some minimal responses by the canon characters to UGC stories.

  8. KTS: I think you are being a little harsh. No one is saying they deserve anything. Frankly you don't have all the facts. I'd be happy to fill you in privately. Second, you say the user created videos aren't all the great? Why do you think that is? Has it always been that way or has the quality degraded over time? You suggest people go and do stuff on their own. Ever stop to think that the people capable of delivering quality vids did that and what you see is what is left? In any case whatever was motivating them before is not motivating them now. Lastly this is all unrelated to my question. I just think if people would adjust there expectations and act accordingly if it was absolutely clear what EQAL interaction means. What's wrong with that?

    QtheC: Which is why I specified non EQAL created characters. If you remember Paul got a nice shout out. Again, if the rules are clear I'm sure people would be happy to play by them. There are plenty of characters that have been mentioned but never seen.

  9. Man this thing needs a preview button.

    BTW MM thanks for posting this. ;p

    So much for me keeping a low profile on the topic.

  10. ok before everyone nails me on it I see the preview button...LOL

  11. A simple yes/no to a simple question to Miles would be nice. The question has been hanging out there for two years now. Just say yes or no and its done. Thats all.

    So Miles? What is it? Yes or no? If it is no, then we can just move on. If it is yes, then let us talk about the rules and get this party started. It is your call.

  12. I just read this post again and I do not see any mention of the front page issue. Lets keep the focus on the actual question being asked here in a very clear and concise post. It happens to lay out this one issue very well and as stated it could help remove a lot of tension if it was unambiguously answered by Miles one way or the other. The objective here is to find a clear resolution to a long standing question. No more, no less.

  13. "So my question to you, point blank is this: is it your policy that no EQAL created character will interact or acknowledge via video, a character not created by EQAL? If “no” then why hasn’t it happened?"

    Jennie's reactions on video to the audio messages left on snapvine did not differentiate between messages left by 'fans' and those left by 'characters not created by EQAL' ... in fact, both were included. See:


    Maybe this is movement in the direction you are looking for?

  14. Just my two cents here...I remember back when LG15 was talking about re-vamping...I think it was about re-vamping the site. I don't remember the exact words used, but the gist went something like this: "We encourage people to create their own characters...and maybe you'll be integrated." Or something to that effect. In essence, they kept leaving it open, saying they couldn't guarantee integration...but anything could happen. Honestly, if you're never going to really integrate, just say so. It wouldn't hurt people's feelings, really, but they'd do it without that annoying little hope of "what if..." in the back of their mind. What if we were mentioned, what if we got more viewers...what if...

    It used to be that LG15 viewers were interested in the fan spinoffs as well as the canon series. Many didn't take any of it seriously, but they saw them as series in their own right. Now it seems that a lot of those people are gone. Those who are left seem only to be interested in fan series inasmuch as they are mentioned by the canon show. Because of that, many of the people who were willing to invest time in quality are gone. Those who remain do so because they love what they do, and aren't willing to give up despite flaming and often discouraging overlooks.

    I think all immortal1 is saying is: don't leave us hanging. Give us either a clear yes or a no.

  15. I agree 'agathachristie'.

    And, my wife loves your books, shouldn't you be off writing those?


  16. I agree with modelmotion's comment in another thread; EQAL can do what they wish with the website they own.

    But the C's have fostered the notion that a user might generate a character and hope to be included in the show all along.

    They even once did include the OpAphid/Tachyon/Brother storyline in the "Breeniverse."

    I still see the promise of including the stories of users in their work. I don't think that the idea should be abandoned.

  17. They've done it way more than once -- Tachyon, Brother, Paul, and EVERY COMMUNITY MEMBER who has been given a shout-out because of posts made "in character".

    So the C's haven't used YOUR stuff.

    Get over it.

  18. ...Greg Gallows, the 436, "plantcake", the Snapvine messages...

    They've incorporated the community into the show like NO ONE has ever done before.

    I agree with KTS.

    Too many EGOs here whining about why "THEIR" stuff hasn't been used.

    If you're not happy, leave, invest in your own show, and quit your bitching.

  19. the 436 was KateModern and not Lonelygirl15. That said it was one of best pieces of interactivity I have seen so far. It showed that the KateModern team really listened to the community and was curious about it. Well done KateModern.

    That said, I am not sure the 436 can be considered a canon character. After all it does not exist.

  20. "help us usher in an era of interactive storytelling where the line between "fan" and "star" has been removed, and dedicated fans like yourselves are paid for their efforts."

    perhaps that statement was far too optimistic? they didn't want to screw anyone, though.

  21. If Miles would just give a few simple answers it sure would help. So come on Miles..........

  22. Anonymous, if you're going to point fingers, put a name with it. I think they bring up valid concerns. Greg Gallows and the Tachyon stuff were amazing, but as far as I've seen it seems to be a lot about who you know (what isn't). Besdides, the Tachyon stuff was back when the LG15 community actually cared more about fanfiction (see agatha's comment above, I agree wholeheartedly). And honestly, I haven't heard anybody "bitching" as you so churlishly put it. Asking for clarification, yes, so that they don't waste their time on false expectations...but I haven't seen many complaining.

  23. I agree how can 436 be considered canon if it doesn't exist? More importantly, where the hell is my check?

  24. You check is in the 436.

    Catch 22


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