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Thursday, February 28, 2008

What makes a notable video?

There has been a lot of discussion on LGPedia over the past few months about a new "tier system" to help organized the various video series created by members of the community. The essence of the concept is a tier system which would allow the LGPedia admins to help organize these videos on LGPedia. Since this could eventually lead to a much needed "portal" for such videos the basic concept seems to have merit.

However, to apply such a system, criteria need to be applied to each of the video series in order to determine which tier the videos fit. The system was intended to be flexible enough to accommodate the special needs of each video series. As it currently stands the criteria that is being used is "notability". The question is what makes a notable video and who makes that decision?

The answer to that question could mean the difference between coverage of a video being compressed onto a page with multiple videos or to full coverage of the videos series at the other extreme of the tier system. For example, coverage for HSA would be significantly scaled back if this system is implemented. The question is, who should determine how much information a series should be allowed to present on LGPedia?

Clearly the LGPedia admins need to have some ability to organize the vast expanse of community videos, but on the other hand we need to have a system that respects the ability of community members to document their series.

What do you think?

If you want to participate in this discussion here is the LGPedia page: Join the discussion and make your views known. There is an additional LGPedia page with a discussion of this topic.

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  1. In my opinion, it should really depend on the quality and amount of videos in the series.

  2. LGPedia contains a very significant archive of information on videos created by the community over a historic period of LG15. I think we need to be really careful how we handle this archive of information. What appears irrelevant to one person may be valuable property to someone else. It is exactly in situations like this that democracy fails.

    Going forward we need to make sure that the community has every opportunity to make the most use of LGPedia if its is going to continue its vital role as a hub for community video series. However clearly we need to understand the needs of the LGPedia admins and what can be done to accommodate those needs without disrupting the creative energy that drives LGPedia.

  3. Let me start by quoting the relevant section from the discussion page:

    "The important and sole decisive criterion is notability. Is a series notable enough to be listed at all, and, if yes, how notable is it?

    Unfortunately, notability is very subjective. As such, we have to fall back on objective data to decide whether a series is notable. Such objective data can be:

    * Did the series become canon at one point in its life? (Example: OpAphid)
    * Did the series get a shoutout or referred to in a canon episode? (Example: Paulmark18)
    * How many people in the community have seen the series? (Example: Maddison Atkins)
    * How many people in the community have heard of the series? (Example: Immant, Cassieiswatching)
    * How many views do the videos of the series have on average?
    * How many episodes does the series have?
    * How many main characters are there? (Just one vlogger, or an entire cast?)
    * How big/complex is the production? (Just one vlogger with a webcam, or an entire crew with multiple sets and scripted episodes?)
    * And, especially for Tier 4 series, is there anything special or exceptional that needs to be considered? (Example: Lonelygirl362436 - technically a rather small series, but highly notable because it was produced by the Creators, had Daniel in it and a well-known hollywood actress as its lead.)
    * [Please expand this list]"

    Notice how we, from the very start, admitted that notability cannot determined as an absolute, but has to be assessed through secondary factors.

    The important point that is incorrectly claimed at the beginning of this article is that there was not a lot of discussion. The discussion ran for two months, publicized on the pedia, and nobody cared. It got traction recently, and, admittedly, some heated arguments. What's important is: After two months, these were the only people complaining. And one of them not even in the actual discussion. LGPedia currently covers slightly above 50 ugc series. 1 ugc creator fought for a better listing. That's a complaint rate of less than 2%. Obviously, the whole "controversy" around this topic is fabricated.

    So while I recognize the discussion has been blown way out of proportion by some (undoubtedly to induce exactly this populism for their cause), the fact stands that LGPedia has asked the same question you asked for two months now. This article is no new thought. The fact that you cannot directly asses notability is not new. We know that tastes differ. But when of 50 people only two show disapproval, and only one actually discusses, our assessment cannot have been all that bad. Truth to be told, even Immo had no objections to the latest version of the suggested Tiers list. The only reason he finally quit was that he was unhappy about the regulations of a deal that would've bumped him a Tier higher. Which, technically, means that no one objected to the suggested Tier list. So much for the great controversy.

    The discussion is still as open as it was two months ago, the "[Please expand this list]" notice is still there, and the list of suggested tiers can still be discussed. Also, all archived posts can be read to see what actually went on so far. All we ask is that you actually discuss on a factual basis, and not on basis of personal likes or dislikes for specific series.

    Hope to hear all your opinions.

  4. Does anyone even know what an encyclopedia is?

    How do RedEarth and Maddison Atkins get more coverage on the lgpedia than cassieiswaiting?

    Seriously, the only Tier 5s there should be are cassieiswaiting and OpAphid when it comes to importance and notability in the breeniverse.

    Connections between MA & RE with lonelygirl15 are tenuous at best - references to characters in LG15's garbage bin is not enough. Neither is the fact that the person behind RE is a discarded writer for LG15. They share an audience. They don't even exist in the same universe as LG15.

    As for this whole argument regarding The Flock, it's just a joke. They update their own pages -- leave them alone.

    An encyclopedia is a reference. A reference encompassing the complete history of something -- not just what is popular today.

    I just read a bunch of argumentative, condescending and self-important crap from someone who's been around since when?... January of this year?

  5. If there's an elementary school near you, you might want to think about visiting it - first grade reading and maths would help you get my join date right.

    As for your questions and opinions, had you actually read the discussion, you'd have found the answers to all of them.

    Because -surprise- once more, nothing of that is new.


  6. Oh, my apologies. I was going by your forum join date. By how many weeks was I off?

    And I've read your "answers", and -surprise- fail to see any logic in them, and abhor your delivery.

    Just for clarification, it's cassieisWATCHING, a mistake I see you failed to pick up on (a MUCH easier target to sling your insults at). It's late, I'm tired, etc..

  7. we should be keeping in mind that what pages are better depends a lot of what people are willing to spend their time on.

  8. Agreed milowent: if these are fan creations, the fans who created the series themselves should be responsible for their upkeep. Then this discussion wouldn't even need to be happening. The administrators would only need to be responsible for making sure no vandalism was happening and to occasionally step in if some abuse is occuring. Other than that, the creators should be responsible and as a community we should self-police how "extensive" we feel pages should be.

    Of course, with the anonimosity already brewing above, that might just be a grand dream. But one I feel still should be put out there as the possible ideal.

  9. Jenni's right on the nose with that one. The whole reason this reassessment is going on is because people were creating several pages based on a single series, with minimal information, and then letting them rot. You want something to get bumped higher? You argue, as is the point with a discussion. You know what will help your case? Agreeing to devote time to your cause.

  10. It is refreshing to read these comments here and see that what I was thinking is mentioned here as well.

    It is my opinion that if a series is going to be on LGpedia, the page for that series should be maintained by the series creators.

    Therefore the "notability" factor does not become a popularity contest, and each series creator is responsible for how they promote their series as opposed to having a ranking of sorts which can put some series out of the running.

    This resolution would ease stress on the LGpedia admins (who aren't paid to do this, ya know) and give each series/creator thereof equality as content providers. As opposed to being put in a caste system.

  11. These are great discussion items unfortuntely none of them will be considered if they are not posted in the lgpedia.

  12. "Oh, my apologies. I was going by your forum join date. [...]"
    Then previous suggestion stands, including the suggestion to read my previous answers - since you obviously have an illiteracy problem, and need a few attempts to get it right.

    As for the suggestion that fans/creators maintain their pages: As Shiori said - if they did this, we wouldn't need the Revamp. They just don't. Plus, it doesn't take into account cases where third parties create series pages.

    In addition, don't forget immo had a very simple deal brokered - maintain the stuff yourself, get collapsed if your pages outdate.
    He didn't like it.


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