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Tuesday, December 16, 2008

What is your favorite plothole??? (LIVE BLOG)

We have seen a lot of active discussion on whether or not Sarah is evil since the end of 12 in 12. In part that involved plotholes or flaws in the series and its mythology. Clearly the fans have an intimate knowledge of every detail about the show so for the next 24 hrs we would like to know what plotholes you think should be filled in the next chapter of LG15: The resistance. How should the LG15 characters be developed. What flaws in the mythology need to be fixed. Where would YOU take LG15: The Resistance? Leave your comments and discussion below so the writers know what you think.


  1. I still want to know why Bree had a scar on her back and what that was all about. Perhaps they touched on that with the Jonas scar but that did not really answer the question about Bree and what the significance of her scar was. That still needs to be explained or put in context.

  2. Yea, I agree Joe. Cassie has always been central to the story at least in the minds of the fans. There is an entire section of the mythology that has not been developed but it would definitely have to be done in the most amazing way because Cassie deserves no less.

    And if DannyB is back on the show that might open up a great opportunity to explore that avenue.

    But who was that girl Cassie?

  3. Your blog loads really slow for me and maybe other readers. I can't see anything! You should check it with a speed test and make sure it's okay. I'm 7mb down / 499k up.

    --->Free Internet Speed Test<---

  4. We currently have the number of posts set to 12 which is on the low end for this blog. If you are having a problem you might want to use an RSS reader which will then allow you to load each article in a new window. It is pretty normal for the blog to have multiple videos on the page which can take some time to load on slower computer systems but we are unaware of any specific problem at this time.

    During 12 in 12 we did have the number of posts increased to 20 so that all the videos from the days activities would show up. However, that was just for one day.

  5. mm, that's spam. The blog is loading fine.

  6. MM, the speed test seems like a scam. Ignore it.

    ANYWAY, before this goes any farther, I'd like to clarify something.

    There is absolutely a difference between plot holes and unanswered questions. Most things that fans have complaints about (Bree's scar, Cassie, et al.) are unanswered questions. Just because the Creators haven't addressed the issue doesn't mean that it's wrong. Yes, sometimes unanswered questions turn into abandoned plot lines, but that's the Creators' prerogative. Clearly a blog to let them know what we want answered is helpful and worth doing, but don't get mad if they don't answer your question.

    A plot hole is something that doesn't make sense in the plot. The most recent example would be the fact that in "Mace in Yo Face," the LBL guys didn't catch Sarah. Beast says this was because Sarah "was evil" but...she was working for the Order, so she should still have been the enemy of LBL.

    There aren't that many actual plot holes in lg15. There are tons of unanswered questions, and I'm sure that many of them will not be answered, but I feel like the majority of lg15 fans do not know what a plot hole is. I've made this argument before, but apparently it didn't get read. Hopefully it will get read this time.

  7. "A plot hole is something that doesn't make sense in the plot."

    and sometimes (though admittedly not always) leaving something unanswered makes no sense in the context of the plot, and can be termed a "plothole." like why there was all this crap about a fake auction that never happened. its an inconsistency that doesn't make sense. (and i'm not here to re-debate "but sarah was evil" stuff)

  8. One of the areas that could use work is the ribozyme science and especially the genetics. The ribozyme idea was clever but when you base sci-fi on contemporary science you need to build a bridge to the rest of the blood mythology. As for the genetics it was supposed to be a random generational mutation so they need to explain how that can be inheritable. And yea, I do get that it is sci-fi, but it still should make sense.

  9. As a preface, the problem I've seen with both series' plot at large is that it hasn't progressed quickly enough. The series lost much of its appeal due to the constant repetition of the same plot over and over again. In my opinion, the original lg15 should have progressed like this:

    Season 1: Bree. Progresses up to the ceremony, gets killed, similar as we've seen it, but more condensed - say, for only 80 episodes instead of 256.
    Season 2: Jonas and Daniel want revenge, and figure that they can't be the first ones who encounter the Order. They find the resistance, who is already a large underground organization, and enter their training. Season two climaxes with Daniel and Jonas killing Carruthers in revenge for Bree, crippling the Order in LA.
    Season 3 would be all-out war. The Order tries to get back into LA, Daniel and Jonas are high priority targets and alternate between guerrilla warfare and deep hiding.
    During season 3, we learn that their victory in LA has inspired fighters all over the world, giving people the strength to rise up. The fight against the Order has gone global. (Hello KateModern and other spin-offs.)
    Since Jonas and Daniel are now global resistance icons, this sets the stage for the finale and season 4 - the Order tracks down their headquarter and strikes hard, Jonas and Daniel barely escape.
    With their original leader dead, and Jonas and Daniel resistance heroes, they become the resistance leaders in season 4, coordinating global strikes and planning to take down the order once and for all....

    The reason I would have chosen this path is that, through constant evolution of the setting, the plots would not repeat as much, the stakes would become higher, and the enemies to defeat would become stronger, up to the series finale, deciding over the ultimate question - "Can the Order be defeated once and for all?"

    That being said, we all know it didn't happen that way...we got iteration over iteration over iteration of "can we save x?", the constant cycle of "we're save - omg - on the run - betrayal - how could I be so stupid - someone's kidnapped - sobsobsob - fight the order - save the girl - hide - repeat" and so on.
    The resistance did start off promising, pretending to be what I would have used as season 2, but ultimately, it was just more of the same - the resistance does -from what we know so far- not exist, the routine-betrayal was there, and even the main plot was the same again - only that this time, the aim was saving all trait-positive girls, and not just a single one.

    So. What would I do for season 2?
    The answer to this is simple. There needs to be war.
    What the protagonists so far don't seem to get is that they are fighting a mighty organization that has everything and is willing to do everything to reach their goals.
    What they have to do is save Jonas and Maggie, go to some South American country (or just Mexico) get trained in guerrilla warfare, and, for the first time in the series, fight back.

    They have to realize that, after girl after girl died, after exposing Salinas and bringing down fronts didn't help, that there is only one option left: Violence.
    They have to start shooting people.
    They have to start bombing facilities.
    They have to start publishing on a wide scale.
    They have to start recruiting people.
    They have to start smear campaigns.

    They have to realize that the do-goody tactics don't work.
    They have to realize that they are at war, whether they like it or not. They can either fight, or die.

    It's not like there would be any less opportunity for intelligence and character development in that. The decision to leave the path of good and blow up a building, the decision to assassinate an Elder, to directly, willfully, on purpose, kill a person, the constant psychic friction of war, of hiding, of going against one's own believes for the greater good are all hooks enough for hundreds of emotional outbursts and deep questions.

    And that's just based on those we know. The plot alone would allow for the introduction of more fighters, who aren't magically connected to them through something. Friends of missing girls. Fathers seeking their daughters. Disillusioned Hymn of One preachers. Renegade Shadows afraid of an early death (no pun intended). Colleagues of Virgil who are not happy their friend was killed.
    Hundreds of people have hundreds of reasons to go to war. Hundreds of stories you can tell.

    And just wait until they start rescuing girls. "Faced with the choice of either going to war and ending the Order once and for all, or choosing a life in peace with his fiancé Cassie, what will Jonas do? Will Daniel overcome his fear and avenge Spencer, or abandon his quest for redemption and choose death?"

    There needs to be war.
    After over 500 episodes, the scale of the series has not changed. It is still the same, basic premise - half a dozen teenagers fighting an organization that should be able to extinguish them in the blink of an eye. It is still sunny, happy LA. It is still the same cycle of living in peace, being stirred up, being betrayed, kidnapped, and saved.

    What season 2 needs to bring, as much as I might sound like Obama, is change.
    Change their attitude.
    Change their understanding.
    Change their methods.

    Instead of having them talk about fighting, have them fight.

    You think Jonas's emotional pressure makes for a great video when he risks three friends' lives?
    Think about how he reacts when he has to command 2000 fighters all over the world in a coordinated strike, with hundreds dying because he told them so! How is he going to react to that?

    If any of the Creators or the EQAL writers want to use any of that, please, feel free to. Get inspired. Break out of the cycle.
    Just don't create any plot holes in the process.

    As for which plot holes I'd like to see fixed...I have already suggested elsewhere that they should go through the series and just pick what is true, say so, and then don't touch it anymore.

    Right now, of course, the Sarah-is-evil thing is most current. I assume it would be most easiest if they invented something that required Sarah to act like their friend instead of striking immediately, or, alternatively, invent something that requires her to be evil now.

    Probably the easiest way to do that is probably creating a larger group within the Order who thinks similar to Alderman and wants to stop killing girls and share the trait positive gene with the world - a sort of revolution or rebellion inside the Order. You could then say that Sarah is part of it, and it was her job to keep TAAG on track and fighting to a) weaken the Order and b) distract them from LaRezisto.
    That way, Sarah is in the Order, and sometimes has to act evil as to not make people suspicious, explaining the finale and beaumont, but she is not actually evil, explaining everything before, *and* her resources to get Jerry working for her as well as her knowledge about LBL.

    Having her in the Order, but not evil, would fix a lot in that regard. And adding a rogue element within the Order would shift the balance of power enough to give TAAG a chance and explain why they are even still alive.

    Another thing that irks me is the lack of closure in many cases. Be it Aunt Alex, OpAphid, Sonia, Deacons, the Hymn of One in general and so on. I understand the concept of plots ending and actors leaving, I just think it's not credible that people as involved as them in everything we saw earlier would never appear again.

    Think Jonas's parents. We have learned they were resistance fighters in the past. Don't you think knowing that the Order tried to kill their daughter, and that their son is out there fighting that same Order might just awaken their rebellious instincts? Do you really think after being the greatest threat to the Order ever, being captured, brainwashed and almost killed by them, they would just sit back in hiding and do nothing?
    Not plot holes, definitely not, but loose ends I'd like to see extended.

    Other than the plot holes page on LGPedia (of which most need explanation), I don't really have a list (yet), but there two things from memory that confuse me:
    1. If the entire group is being sought-after by the FBI...how the HELL did they get out of jail in Wrong Play?? Shouldn't their names ringed a bell in the computer or something?
    2. Reed's appearance in community week and his acknowledgement of Amanda. That is just a major fuckup, and I do think other than trying a weird-ass explanation for it, a retcon would be better. Just officially declare it never happened, and be done with it. But having a character of the series acknowledge fans and producer of the series is just not good at all. How the hell would you explain community week in the series? "Hey, after we were almost killed, disillusioned and disbanded, have some fun with our website?"
    Just make it go away. It's a major break of the fourth wall and not good.

    I'm not going to count my words, and I'm not going to proofread this :P
    Again, whoever from EQAL wants to use this, feel free to. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

  10. Maybe I should've proofread >_>

    "LaRezisto" should be the rebellion/revolution/insurgents in my post up there.

  11. True, Milo, but most of the things (such as Ren's mention of abandoned characters) are not plot holes. Could the writing be better? Yes, absolutely. Characters should have closure, and they don't. Still, if we're viewing this as "real," we're not always going to get closure for ANY story line, and there's no point in giving it the moniker "plot hole."

    Ren does bring up some very good points towards the end of his, er, brief comment. Reed broke the fourth wall incredibly, and that's messed up.

    Ren, before the finale, I would have called your first example (of jail and FBI) a plot hole, but if Sarah's in the Order, she's connected to people that are bigger than the FBI.

  12. Ren, I also meant to comment on your plot structure. While I think it's excellent and very doable, I don't think it's lonelygirl15 (and don't say that now that it's titled "The Resistance," it's any different). It's supposed to be sunny L.A. It's supposed to be small-scale vs. big-scale. That's what the show is. Watching a war against the Order would be wonderful, but that's not what the show ever set out to do. Should they use the same simple plot every season? Of course not, but you can bet that they are going to stick to the vision they imagined, which is young adults fighting something much bigger than them while dealing with personal problems at the same time. Watching Jonas command an army would take away from watching Jonas deal with his feelings for Maggie. It's not supposed to be grisly. It's supposed to be...almost relatable.

  13. I'm not really all that upset about Reed winking at the fourth wall. It was a nod back to old days when we used to play canon-or-not with Gemma and Jonas and Taylor, and it was fun.


    I'd love to briefly return to Gemma's fate, but I think that's too tightly knit with OpAphid to ever return to.

  14. Thad, I am someone who thinks that even the original premise of Bree vlogging in her bedroom would still work, if written correctly. You arguably can't go more "lonelygirl15" than that.
    The problem, both with that as well as small scale sunny LA, is: Things have changed. They are not a few teens having some trouble anymore.
    By now, they have kidnapped innocent children, caused multiple deaths, broke into multiple houses and facilities, stole information, and are hunted by the FBI.

    There is no turning back.

    By now, the TAAG and the Order are at what, imo, is best described as a "lukewarm" war. They are beyond cold war, in that they are attacking each other, but they do not quite have a hot war yet, in that it is not yet their constant, primary occupation to fight each other. There is sort of no way to get out of that for the writers.

    In theory, there are two ways to end such a situation: War and peace.
    Now think about it. TAAG has killed multiple Elders, stopped the Order's attempt to get into politics, beaten the crap out of Lucy, and knows way too much.
    Do you think the Order would just let them live, if they promise to be good?
    On the other hand, even if they would - do you think, with all they know about people dying and innocent girls being imprisoned, the TAAG could just live on and pretend nothing happens? Just sit back and relax, knowing, at this very moment, an innocent girl might die, her blood being pumped into a centuries old villain? Knowing that, had they fought and prevailed, they could've saved her?
    No way.

    That means, peace is out. Even if they settled for now, the constant knowledge of each other would ultimately drive someone insane and make them settle this once and for all. Be it Lucy sending a few Shadows, be it Jonas covertly starting a website with infos. Neither side would just pretend none of this happened.

    That leaves war.
    I know that a world-wide guerrilla war is sort of far away from Bree vlogging in her bedroom.
    I just think that that memory is the "problem" here. People still think of LG15 as that cute girl in her bedroom. But that's not it anymore.

    Think of the Deacon being shot on camera. Think of OpAphid and Tachyon. Think of Daniel abducting a screaming little girl. Think of Daniel being abducted and brainwashed. Think of them stealing babies. Think of Sarah beating the crap out of Jonas with a lead pipe.

    LG15 hasn't been small and cute and innocent for a very, very long time.
    The whole evil ceremony was still within the original scope. That still fit. It involved the original parameters - Bree, her home, her friend Daniel, the conflict her religion causes. But with the advent of Gemma and OpAphid, all of that changed. The scope changed. We went from one girl, Bree, to multiple girls. From small-scale religious problems to large-scale vanishing of people. To covert war between Tachyon and OpAphid.
    I like the memory, and I don't want it to be lost. But if you want to continue the story as it is, you have to realize that that's what it is: Nothing but a memory. The current LG15 is not innocent. It's a violent conflict. People die.

    So, Thad; as much as I like the memory of the old, innocent days. LG15 is not small and sunny anymore. And any satisfying continuation of The Resistance, in my opinion, can only build upon the current world of LG15.

    Think of it in two memories of the series:
    The old LG15, the small-scale sunny LA-version of it, is Bree in Truckstop Reunion. A young, beautiful, innocent girl, bathed in sunlight, smiling at you while you drive up.
    The Resistance is Sarah, leather-clad, burying a lead pipe in your ribcage.

    There is no going back.

  15. I see your point. I do think they should fight head-on, but I don't see "Jonas commanding a group of hundreds" working out for the show. I understand that four young adults aren't realistically going to win a war, but turning it into a massive battle is changing the show.

    The writers at the moment are clearly trying to avoid this war-path and find a way for TAAG to shut down the Order without having to resort to changing the format of the show. Things like "the cure" are a good start. If there was no trait-positivity any more, there would be no Order...

    Consider Prison Break. If you don't watch it, there's a company called "The Company" that is basically the Order without all of the sci-fi. They control everything and have their fingers in every important agency imaginable. They also have a device that's code-named "Scylla" that basically has names of all of the Company's operatives. If the protagonists find it, they can out every member of the Company and effectively shut them down...without resorting to war.

    The exact same thing could be done in lg15 without changing the show. The Resistance was billed as "a cross-country road trip to find a mystical artifact that can bring down the Order once and for all."

    If not for one betrayal, the Order could have been shut down on Friday, without resorting to war. The show would have kept the same format.

    You're right, it's a memory...but consider the majority of the fans. We like the memories. We want this show to remind us of Bree. Changing the show means upsetting the majority of the fans, and that's obviously not a wise move.

  16. When they said they were going on a road-trip I expected them to do just that. Most production RVs come with "stylist quarters" hair/make up facility, kitchen and build in internet connection. Throw a Mac tower and a monitor on board and you have a complete mobile video production facility.

    They could have criss-crossed America with fan run meet-ups and at least one live event along the way. A PR agency could have set up local media interviews for loads of free publicity. For a little money the RV could have been painted with the TR and Eqal logo and become a moving bulletin board for LG15.com along the way. Imagine the excitement as the "tour bus" approached the next major city.

    The plot could then have been written to take advantage of a real "road trip" with say one support vehicle for TAAG following the RV (other needs could have been set up locally).

    Yes gas was expensive at the time, but this approach would have been great promo for Eqal as it launched and served to put them on the map across the country. The fans would have been engaged setting up the meet-ups and could have used LG15.com to coordinate and plan them. Yes they would need some accommodation in addition to the RV but that would have been done on a small budget since it would have served as publicity for the hotel/motels.

    What we got were fake locations and a one live event in Boston which I do think the fans really enjoyed. Would these steps have turned TR into a major hit. Probably not, but the fans would have had a blast along the way and it would have given the road trip a sense of authenticity which the show needs.

    Well that is what I anticipated.

  17. One question we need to ask is why so few people watched the show and why it failed to get any momentum despite the huge leg up of having the creators behind it. One thing i noticed in polling on comments in the early days of lonelygirl15 is that fans would talk about action a lot but on the average action did not poll well. What polled really, really really well was any relationship or character development. That led me to believe that while fans ask for more and better action plots their real motivation for watching is really the characters and relationships behind the show. If they want to build a larger audience I do not think they can ignore that aspect of the series and that is one thing the original vlog format did pretty well.

  18. Part of it I can tell you is just the title.

    They need to drop "lonelygirl15/LG15" from their show's title. Web people are fickle and so there are a lot out there who have not and will not watch a show titled "Lonelygirl15."

    Part of it may be just good old-fashioned elitism, of which the Web has plenty, and you may never win those people over. However, you could win over some who never watched the show but know it's existed since 2006. It's daunting for anyone to jump into a show with this heavy a mythology. Critics might call it "convoluted."

    But - KateModern is considered a successful show. People were willing to give it a chance. It felt like a new show, it acted like a new show, and it was treated like one.

    Can anyone truly say with a straight face that LG15: The Resistance is a "new show," or is it simply LG15 with an adjusted format? They're not fooling anyone.

    If they want to bring back the popularity, they have to start fresh in America. Find a way to streamline the story and in essence restart the brand. But taking the same characters, rehashing the same storylines and tacking more and more onto the overarching mythology is just adding more information for new viewers to sift through.

    In so many ways, it's the Lost effect. Only for Lost, they have no choice but to soldier on. LG15 doesn't have to do it. They can make a new show with new people and yet still be able to further the overall universe while bringing in new viewers.

  19. This is just a suggestion as to where LG15:TR should go. Sorry for the length!

    For a while the TAAG or whatever you want to call them were making some progress, trying a find a way to once-and-for-all protect Trait-Positive girls. LG15:TR had a plan and it almost worked. But the thing about protection is that, tactically, it's ultimately defensive in strategy. And when you're constantly on the defense, you're going to lose, and sometimes you lose a lot.

    There's another way to bring down the Order, and the idea of the list of all the Trait-Positive girls gave this an idea. The Order can't be a very stable organization. All those Elders needing to wait to get their chance to be transfused with Trait-Positive blood? All the Order underlings doing anything it takes to try to ascend? With the goal of eternal youth/life, how is it possible that an organization hasn't succumbed to dissension in the ranks and power struggle?

    One reason could be is that no one person knows who exactly all the Elders are. And who determines which Elder is next in line for blood? If you expose the Elders and the Order decision-makers, it's open season on those in the Order that want to go "rogue." If someone posted a list of all of these important people, what is stopping someone from hunting down who's next in line so they can move up?

    And that's my suggestion for the next season of LG15:TR -- instead of fighting against them, start a fight within. Have someone join the Order, do recon, and incite a coup. And maybe we as an audience can get to learn just a little bit more about this secret organization that we're supposedly fighting against.

  20. Personally, I thought "The Resistance" was pretty fun. If the series was going to be all about the Order, then "The Resistance" provided enough thrills and chills to keep me interested. Sarah's evil doesn't seem at all wrong-headed to me -- ever since day one, she's been fairly suspicious, and made some very odd decisions. Like scattering important documents into the water, vanishing during the day of Bree's ceremony, withholding a formula that could have helped Emma, her bizarre relationship with Carl. Her treachery puts some of the pieces in place, although it's not clear why she kept up the disguise for so long.

    That said... I think the Order as an ongoing mythology is really boring. LG15, to me, was not interesting because of a strange cult that had co-opted every level of Western society while maintaining utmost secrecy and concealing its existence within the government and law enforcement. That's just ridiculous. LG15 interested me because the characters were awesome. When the show focused on the characters -- Bree, Daniel, Jonas, Taylor, Spencer, Gina, and others -- I adored it. When the show focused on low-budget action sequences and repetitive escape/capture routines, I got bored.

    "The Resistance" has basically been the action and the escape/capture material, but with more enthusiasm and competence than most of the third season. Still, I feel it's really best to just drop the Order from the show as a major presence. Put it in the background. Focus on people trying to live and survive and tolerate each other.

    They had their chance with "The Resistance", but really, "The Resistance" is simply a new tagline for the fourth season of LG15.

  21. 1. More puzzles for the community to solve.
    2. Fewer rescue missions.
    3. A return to the bedroom vlog.
    4. Even more strong female characters who save the day every so often.
    5. WTF was up with Gina's pictures? I'm still not clear on that...
    6. Be a little more like KateModern. LG15: TR shows a lot of growth in terms of maturity as the audience has matured along with it. But the way that tension, horror, comedy, and mystery were used in KM is something that could be brought to LG15: TR to a greater degree.

  22. (Hate to remain anonymous but...)

    How did this discussion go from what plot holes do we want answered to what the creators should to change the show?

    I have a feeling the creators are set in their ways. We can argue what they should've done in the past all we want, but it happened and it isn't gonna change.

    But we can address some things in the plot, and possible get some answers. I think we should focus on plot holes for the creators to address in the next series, not bash them for past mistakes.

  23. I really don't think it's possible to salvage the show at this point. They just make shit up without thinking ahead, or looking back at the past. It's ridiculously inconsistent, and relies on random plot twists for entertainment.

    I've been watching since the beginning, but I think I'm done. Especially now that they're only going to be featuring fan-created material for a while. They dont realize that the majority of the people who watch the show don't give a shit about that.

  24. Renegade. While I agree with you in some respect, I think the point is that this is supposed to occur in a realistic frame of time. If this were REAL LIFE, it probably would have really happened like that. It probably would have happened very, very slowly with a lot of redundancy.

    Honestly, in real life, the Order would probably win. There's really no way at this point that I can see the Resistance winning. I think something major has to be revealed, or they have to end it negatively. Note, it can still be a good ending, and effective ending, but it will not be a happy one.

    That is, if they intend to maintain the limits of reality (which they have pushed, in my opinion, as far as they can possibly be pushed). If not, then sure, the plot should evolve faster, and we can win.

  25. PS: It would actually be rather awesome though, to watch the show evolve realistically into just what you describe. Bombings, assassinations, etc.

    They already briefly alluded to this, but that would easily turn into a debate about terrorism. The gang would be tagged as terrorists, assuming the government is firmly controlled by the Order.

    I wouldn't want it to become a group of thousands all over the world though. I DO like the premises of big vs. small.

    But, after showing us who is good and who is evil, they should blurr the lines they've already drawn. We know the "big" organization is evil, and we know the "small" organization is good, and has tried EVERYTHING. So, they choose to resort to terrorism.

    For one thing, that would probably grab the media's attention. Which means more viewership, more press, more money, and ultimately better production. BUT it would be a huge risk. It might even risk everything. The whole show. The Creators' reputations and careers. Perhaps the deal with eqal would be at risk.

    I can't tell the Creators how to write their show, but I can definitely say, that would get attention.

  26. @the "reluctant" anonymous:
    As they say so aptly on slashdot: RTFA.
    It says, right there, in bold: "Where would YOU take LG15: The Resistance?"
    It's the sole bold part, too. Hard to miss.

    Assume 80 episodes and 20 text blogs and you've got enough content for 4 1/2 months. That is not assuming purposeful lack of posts to generate tension, or periods where puzzles have to be solved and the interaction happens through forum posts.

    Sure. Recruiting people one by one would take ages. But I do think if you take a large enough event that exposes what's going on to enough people, 4 1/2 months may not be the most realistic timeframe in the world, but it is still realistically possible.

    Simple example: Let's say they free Jonas, tape it as usual, and then have ultra-master-hyper-hacker Taylor hack FOX News and broadcast a "Best of The Order" or something. Sure, the mainstream media, under control by the Order, would disguise the incident, and the gov't (also under Order control) would claim it was a terrorist attack.

    But as they say on the internet: You can't unwatch stuff. People would have seen it. Word would spread. The website would be visited. And more and more friends, relatives, victims and bystanders would contact TAAG - because they would know it's not a lie. They would know it's the truth. And they would be very grateful for someone to fight to find or avenge their loved ones. For someone to lead them.

    Sure, not everyone is made for fighting. But for every 100 that contact them, you'll have one or two angry fathers, brothers and boyfriends who want their daughters, sisters and girlfriends back. These people have friends. Those friends have friends. Those friends have ideals, ideals that don't have to have anything to do with the girls. They may not care that innocent people die. That doesn't mean they wouldn't fight to make the trait+ gene available to everyone. That doesn't mean they wouldn't fight as patriotic Americans, to rid the government of the infiltration by the Order.

    With enough exposure, within a month, you could have enough people together to do some lasting damage. Look at the Rose Revolution. If enough people come together, you can bring change quickly. And those people were unarmed.
    Among TAAG's supporters would be cops, coast guards, national guards, soldiers. People who have the know how TAAG is lacking. People who can give them a little training.

    Now, of course a few hundred people can't bring down the Order in 2-3 months. It's too mighty and too hidden for that. But they can hurt it. They can start the war.

    Think of it this way: You may not be able to win against a Shadow in hand to hand combat.....but only two pinpricks to the eyes are enough to severely incapacitate him.

    I understand what you're saying, I just think it wouldn't be quite as unrealistic as you think. The death of loved ones is a strong motivator. And if this has gone on for centuries, the Order will have pissed off many people on the way.

    As for the whole terrorist angle, my reply shall be this picture.


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