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Saturday, March 21, 2009

HELP ME!!! - Toni (LG15: The Last)

Toni on Twitter: I need help! Please! It's the only way to get the message through!!! http://twitter.com/tellme_moore












IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE MESSAGE THROUGH!!!

http://www.lg15.com/images/list/12880/654/1

Jadye on Twitter: Thanks PJ for helping out :) we need all the help we can get..I dont understand why Toni has to make it soo complicated http://twitter.com/coopitquiet


YourFavoritePerson_PJ said:

My notes on page two so far:




For more links to LG15: The Last visit our LG15: The Last blogspot portal page.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyph

Egyptian hieroglyphs (pronounced /ˈhaɪərəʊɡlɪf/; from Greek ἱερογλύφος "sacred carving", also hieroglyphic = τὰ ἱερογλυφικά [γράμματα]) was a formal writing system used by the ancient Egyptians that contained a combination of logographic and alphabetic elements. Egyptians used cursive hieroglyphs for religious literature on papyrus and wood. Less formal variations of the script, called hieratic and demotic, are technically not hieroglyphs.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transliteration_of_Ancient_Egyptian

Transliteration of Ancient Egyptian

In the field of Egyptology, transliteration is the process of converting (or mapping) texts written in the Egyptian language to alphabetic symbols representing uniliteral hieroglyphs or their hieratic and demotic counterparts. This process facilitates the publication of texts where the inclusion of photographs or drawings of an actual Egyptian document is impractical.


Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary

http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/dict1.htm

http://hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/pager.pl?p=16

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10929802/Dictionary-of-Middle-Egyptian

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=8cMWickoS6oC&oi=fnd&pg=PR4&dq=Egyptian+hieroglyphics&ots=HyIrAnls4n&sig=_4xJI8sbINQ0H4iQxrqMJzEGc20#PRA3-PA580,M1


WHITEBOARD <=This whiteboard is still an experimental approach to a graphical problem but it does show some potential.






























74 comments:

  1. I've been trying to work this and failing... I can tell it's Egyptian hieroglyphics, but the internet isn't exactly helping, and glyphs can be pretty particular in their meaning.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Is there any coordination going on for this anywhere? At the forums, or the comment board?

    I think in Gardiner's System, the signs on the first page are D46(d) D58(b) V28(h) F18 A2 T18 S29(snb) D54 A2 D21(r) D37 - no idea what they mean (yet), but it's definitely not hex, and so far only garbage in base64.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Page 3 should/could be Q3 S29(snb) I10 Z2 (times 3) T22 W24 Z1 (times 2) and then either Z1 times 5 or Z2 once + Z1 twice.

    Shi said earlier:
    <Shiori> I got "Flight QFPSJ9" from the last one, but that's not done, either

    ReplyDelete
  4. Second page should be W17 N35 X1 P2 N14 G1(3) G43(w) N5 W17 N35 X1 D21(r) V13 X1 A1 B1.

    Random theories:
    - The translations of the symbols could be important.
    - The meanings of the symbols could be important.
    - The ID-codes could be important.
    - Only the letters of those could be (e.g. a cipher).
    - Only the numbers of those could be (e.g. GPS coordinates).

    All together, once more:
    D46(d) D58(b) V28(h) F18 A2 T18 S29(snb) D54 A2 D21(r) D37 [Chas and Mitch]

    W17 N35 X1 P2 N14 G1(3) G43(w) N5 W17 N35 X1 D21(r) V13 X1 A1 B1

    [Flight QF] Q3 S29(snb) I10 Z2 (times 3) T22 W24 Z1 (times 2) and then either Z1 times 5 or Z2 once + Z1 twice.
    [It's urgent!!!]

    And without random stuff:
    D46 D58 V28 F18 A2 T18 S29 D54 A2 D21 D37

    W17 N35 X1 P2 N14 G1 G43 N5 W17 N35 X1 D21 V13 X1 A1 B1

    Q3 S29 I10 Z2 Z2 Z2 T22 W24 Z1 Z1 [Z1 Z1 Z1 Z1 Z1 OR Z2 Z1 Z1]

    And with groupings:
    D46 D58 V28 F18 A2 T18 S29 D54 A2 (D21 D37)

    W17 (N35 X1) P2 N14 G1 G43 N5 W17 (N35 X1) (D21 V13 X1) A1 B1

    Q3 S29 I10 (Z2 Z2 Z2) T22 (W24 (Z1 Z1)) [Z1 Z1 Z1 Z1 Z1 OR Z2 Z1 Z1]

    The repetition of W17 (N35 X1) on page two strikes me, for some reason.

    Reference here.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Thanks Ren.

    Can you suggest an approach to move things forward from here? I mean how do we use all this to create meaning?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Here's what Wikipedia says about transliterations of those symbols - square brackets hold those I didn't find, braces indicate vertical groups, parentheses with pipes signal multiple possible meanings; I chose to interpret the vertical bars as numbers, as | can be 1, and the next higher unit seems to be 10 (unlike Roman numerals, where there is a V/5):

    Page 1:
    D B H (BH|HW) [man]
    SMS SNB [legs] [man] {R MI}

    Page 2:
    HNT {N T} [ship]
    SB3 3 W [double circle]
    HNT {N T} [man]
    {R T¹ T} [woman]

    Page 3:
    P SNB D 9
    SN {(IN|NW) 2}
    5

    ¹ The half circle is a "t" whereas the "skipping rope" is a "T", spoken like a "tj", like the "ch" in church".

    @model: Dunno yet. Symbol meanings (like man, hand, run, etc.) are still an option, but there are many possible interpretations there. I'll focus on trying to find a code of sorts in the random letters and numbers.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I have seen the double circle referred to as "ra" in two different places now. That would make 2:2 "SB3 3 W RA".

    ReplyDelete
  8. I have turned what I had so far into the so called "Manuel de Codage", a special notation to describe hieroglyphs in characters available on the computer; given that the output I generated is identical to the drawings, I'm pretty confident my original glyph selection was correct, safe for two notes:

    1. The glyph that looks like the handle of an umbrella looks a lot more like a horizontally flipped S39 than a normal S29.
    2. The drawing of the "hockey stick" glyph is not quite as straight as the actual glyph. I'm inclined to believe this is a drawing error, but it could just as well mean I have the wrong glyph.

    Link to the picture
    Link to the MdC->picture converter

    MdC Code for this image:
    D46-D58-V28-F18-A2-! T18-S29-D54-A2-D21:D37-!=150%

    W17-N35:X1-P2-! N14-G1-G43-N5-! W17-N35:X1-! D21:V13:X1-A1-B1-!=150%

    Q3-S29-I10-Z2:Z2:Z2-! T22-W24:(Z1*Z1)-!
    Z1*Z1*Z1*Z1-Z1-!=150%

    +l Same things, but with mirrored S39 instead of S29: +s-!
    D46-D58-V28-F18-A2-! T18-S39\-D54-A2-D21:D37-!=150%

    W17-N35:X1-P2-! N14-G1-G43-N5-! W17-N35:X1-! D21:V13:X1-A1-B1-!=150%

    Q3-S39\-I10-Z2:Z2:Z2-! T22-W24:(Z1*Z1)-!
    Z1*Z1*Z1*Z1-Z1-!

    ...now if somebody happens to stumble upon an "MdC translator" or something, please scream :)

    ReplyDelete
  9. Page 2, second line is "morning."

    http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/dict13.htm

    ReplyDelete
  10. Great find, Apo...I had just written a script that replaces the glyph codes with the phonetic codes, and this shows that I was using the wrong set of phonetic codes x_x (Buurman/Grimal instead of Gardiner).

    I'll try to find the correct phonetic codes, so we can Google those for translations.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Thanks Renegade!

    Page 2, first line is "fare southwards (verb)."

    http://hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/lookup.pl?ty=en&ch=f&cs=0

    I think hieroglyphs.net is actually the source for the code.

    ReplyDelete
  12. That's possible. No luck on the list; I'll start digging through that dictionary as well.

    ReplyDelete
  13. http://hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/lookup.pl?ty=tr&ch=S&cs=1
    http://hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/lookup.pl?ty=tr&ch=d&cs=1

    First page:
    1st line: "beg" is very similar, but not equal to the picture. (Might have been a size problem.)

    2nd line: "follow" (using glyph S29, as I had it originally), that's only half the sentence, though.

    ReplyDelete
  14. The eye with the arm on page 1, line 2 can mean "give"; that would make the line "follow [man] give", where the man can be "I/me/my".

    Then again, all other lines where whole words so far, weren't they?

    ReplyDelete
  15. Page 2, line 3: "earlier (adv)"

    ReplyDelete
  16. Page 2, line 4: "people (noun)" has all but the small half-circle: http://hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/lookup.pl?ty=tr&ch=r&cs=1

    ReplyDelete
  17. I took the liberty of re-generating the image with our current speculation of things.

    - "beg", glyph-wise, has the hockey stick under the hand, rather than in front of the man, in the dictionary.
    - As visible, the second line is not a single word as the others - speaks against it.
    - "People" lacks the half-circle in the dictionary.
    - I took the liberty of having the flight end in -9, as Shi suggested, rather than -8, as Apo did. Apo, if you had any reason to divert from the number of lines given there, please say so.

    Now, I have a wild theory for the last few lines.
    Assuming you were telling someone about a flight, while a flight number would theoretically be enough, more info would always be good.

    I could not find a symbol similar to line 2 on page 2, and lines 2 and 3 both contain numbers.
    Maybe they are more information regarding the flight, or a meeting place?
    The arrow could signify arrival at the destination. It can also stand for "sn", according to Wikipedia - "Sydney", maybe?
    The cookie jar kind of glyph can stand for "in" and "nw". "NW" could be Northwestern Airlines, or just North West (or, to stretch it a little, New South Wales, the county Sydney is situated in).
    The 2 and the 5 should signify numbers in that.

    What I mean is, the last page could mean something like "Flight QFPSJ9, Arrival North West Terminal 2, 5 AM" or something.
    I have nothing at all to back that up, just letting my imagination running wild. (What speaks against that is that Sydney Airport's Terminal 2, while it does handle domestic flights, is located in the north east, and does not handle NWA flights...but, you know what I'm getting at.)

    ReplyDelete
  18. According to this page, the first line means "beg".

    ReplyDelete
  19. ApothesisAZ that site u found helps!
    http://hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/lookup.pl?ty=en&ch=f&cs=0

    For the first page the first 3 symbols on the second line according to this site means "follow".

    ReplyDelete
  20. Thing seem to be beginning to fall in place. I think we are close. The flight theory seems to make sense if we can just nail down the details.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I did an egyptian project ages ago. I made a poster of the hierogliph alphabet. Can't find it atm. Will keep looking though.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Little addition/correction: Line one must not be "beg", can also be the more general "ask for".

    According to Wikipedia, the man figure could mean:
    "eat (wnm)
    drink (swr)
    speak, think, feel, tell (sdjd)
    refrain from speech (gr)
    advise/counsel (kAj)
    love (mrj)"

    ...so maybe line 2 means "follow advice given"?

    Last updated picture for today, it's definitely bed time now.

    P.S.: "QF" (from the flight number) is Qantas (the Airline). Terminal 2 of Sydney Airport handles QantasLink, a regional version of Qantas.
    Just sayin'.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Just think out loud here...
    Renegade QF does mean Qantas Flight :)

    so my thoughts..

    Flight QF ??5

    The last well third line has five strokes so just guessing here

    ReplyDelete
  24. This is starting to make sense. I added some of the words we have to the post.

    ReplyDelete
  25. still working through this site i have...

    symbol before Chas and Mitch according to this site means "give"

    so im thinking

    give Chas and Mitch(first page) fare southwards (on 2nd page)

    thats from what ive got put with what others have found..

    I think shes tryin to tell us shes comin back from the gold coast cuz its "fare southwards" and we need to tell chas and mitch something maybe the qantas flight number or details

    ReplyDelete
  26. Also from the site the person symbol at the end of first line and same as in second line on the first page means I, me or my

    ReplyDelete
  27. My last thought for the night/morning is the first page reads...
    line one - beg me
    line two - follow me give
    Chas and Mitch
    doesn't really make sense i think the word beg is a plea, she wants our help so for line one i would read help me

    ReplyDelete
  28. Whiteboard for the puzzle:

    http://www.scriblink.com/index.jsp?act=phome&ld=1&rid=763&cid=965

    ReplyDelete
  29. I think your on the right track PatTheDog. It makes more sense for her to ask for help. According to a translation of hieroglyphs by Ockinga, The first line of the first page can read either as "Beg" or "to ask for"

    ReplyDelete
  30. Found it!!
    Ok so I get:
    (k?)bhz_
    _s_ _lz

    Well that doesnt help...
    Page 2:
    _nt_
    _ao_
    _nt
    l_t _ _

    Page 3:
    flight
    _ _ (p?)sv_
    (i/y?)(p?)_
    _

    Hmm idk if that helped or not

    ReplyDelete
  31. Skye 975 that sounds like a good site would u mind posting the link??
    whats everyone thinking?? is it the translation of the symbols into words for the clue or what letters each symbol means to spell out a message..what do you think toni ment??

    ReplyDelete
  32. We probably just need to find the words that we are missing and then it will make sense,

    ReplyDelete
  33. I think but im not sure its very similar but the last line on page 2 looks like the people symbol from
    http://hieroglyphs.net/0301/cgi/lookup.pl?ty=en&ch=p&cs=0
    not exactly the same but its the closest ive got

    ReplyDelete
  34. I've got something for the first two pages:
    http://i42.tinypic.com/290ucts.jpg
    http://i43.tinypic.com/m9xell.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  35. Are my posts invisible or something? o_O

    The whole point of posting that often was that people didn't have to go through and look everything up again. >_>

    @patthedog: I put "follow" and "give" up with question marks last night because that would be the only line so far where the line does not stand for a single word. While yes, follow and give do indeed translate perfectly, look at it in progression:

    1:1: One line, one phrase.
    1:2: One line, three words, one of them untranslated.
    2:1: One line, one phrase.
    2:2: One line, one word.
    2:3: One line, one word.
    2:4: One line, one word.
    3:1: One line, one flight number.
    3:2: Unknown
    3:3: One line, one number.

    Yes. Follow and give do translate perfectly. But that would be the only time so far where we have to take a line apart to get a translation.
    That doesn't mean it's wrong. But it is an indicator that it might be wrong.

    In addition, while "I/me/my" is an interesting new addition to the set, as posted above, the man glyph (A2) is also used as a "determinative" in the following words:
    "eat (wnm)
    drink (swr)
    speak, think, feel, tell (sdjd)
    refrain from speech (gr)
    advise/counsel (kAj)
    love (mrj)"

    Due to the nature of this particular message, it is likely a straightforward translation is correct, but from rules alone, it doesn't have to be.

    Once more, here's the status I had last night: Picture link. (All credit goes to Apo, he found the dictionaries.)
    Given that both PJ and patthedog independently arrived at the same translations, I believe them to be solid.

    @PJ: Have you found a site where the glyph for "people" is actually the same glyph as the drawn one? I only found one that is very similar so far.

    ReplyDelete
  36. According to this list, 1:2 "follow" (T18-S29-D54) must not necessarily be follow, but can be:
    "follow, accompany, serve, bring, present" as well as:
    "following, suite"
    interestingly, there are words like "funeral procession" listed, which is "T18-S29-D54-G43-U28-G1-D54", beginning with the same glyphs that mean "follow", and an alternative meaning given as "follow the funeral" (which is what a procession does).

    This supports the theory that T18-S29-D54-A2-D21:D37 is a compound word or phrase that does indeed either directly include "follow", or has a similar meaning.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Page 3, line 2, the one with the arrow, is the Eyptian number "2" - the entire combination of symbols. Reference here.

    From what I saw during search, it can sometimes also be used as "hair", "two brothers", or "pair".

    Going over page three now, we have Flight QFPSJ9 | 2 | 5.
    We know QantasLink arrives at Terminal 2 in Sydney, and Page 2 talks about Morning. It could be that flight QFPSJ9 arrives at Terminal 2 at 5 AM.
    That's pure speculation, though.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Holy crap we're wrong.

    Look at the same page I just linked, further down - the value given for Egyptian "9" is the same as after flight QF - the entire construct means only "flight QF9"

    ReplyDelete
  39. Click here for the latest image

    MdC, for my own reference (I lost yesterday's -_-):
    D46-D58-V28-F18-A2-!=40% +l Ask for (or "beg") +s !-T18-S29-D54-A2-D21:D37-!=40% +l follow (?) [man] give (?) +s !=40% +l Chas and +s !=40% +l Mitch +s !=150%

    W17-N35:X1-P2-!=40% +l fare southward +s !-N14-G1-G43-N5-!=40% +l morning +s !-W17-N35:X1-!=40% +l earlier +s !-D21:V13:X1-A1-B1-!=40% +l people (?) +s !=150%

    +l flight QF +s !=80% Q3-S29-I10-Z2:Z2:Z2-!=40% +l 9 +s !-T22-W24:(Z1*Z1)-!=40% +l 2 +s
    !-Z1*Z1*Z1*Z1-Z1-!=30% +l 5 +s !=60% +l It's URGENT!!! +s !=40% +l Now who's the idiot +s !=40% +l Bray


    Also, from chat just now:
    <Angelique> I looked it up
    <Angelique> flight QF925 always comes in around 3:55
    <Angelique> ish
    <Angelique> into Sydney
    <Angelique> so if you guys figure out the day...
    <Angelique> I"m going to post this on the board but then I need to go get ready for work.
    <modelmotion> http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByFlight.do?id=155248601&utm_source=airlineInformationAndStatus&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=co-op
    <modelmotion> QF) Qantas Airways 925
    <modelmotion> Departure Date:
    <modelmotion>  
    <modelmotion> Mon Mar 23, 2009
    <modelmotion> Status:
    <modelmotion>  
    <modelmotion> Scheduled
    <modelmotion> Arrival Status Details
    <modelmotion> Airport:
    <modelmotion>  
    <modelmotion> (SYD) Kingsford Smith Airport
    <modelmotion> City:
    <modelmotion>  
    <modelmotion> Sydney, NS, AU
    <modelmotion> Scheduled:
    <modelmotion>  
    <modelmotion> 3:55 PM - Mon Mar 23, 2009
    <modelmotion> Estimated:
    <modelmotion>  
    <Angelique> seems to always been same number and same time even on different days
    <modelmotion> 3:55 PM - Mon Mar 23, 2009
    <modelmotion> Terminal:
    <Angelique> so the day COULD be wrong
    <modelmotion>  
    <modelmotion> T3
    <modelmotion> Local Time:
    <modelmotion>  
    <modelmotion> 8:06 AM - Mon Mar 23, 2009

    ReplyDelete
  40. Bah, correct link. This thing needs an edit function. Like, a lot.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Additional translations for D21:37 ("give") can be "give, put, place, appoint, send (letter), cause, permit, grant". Still no compound translation found.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Wait, can you explain why you can just drop the symbols and jump right to nine?

    ReplyDelete
  43. Click here. Scroll down. You'll find that the Egyptian symbol for "9" is the entire thing, not just the lines at the end.
    You can cross-check that with this link; the first one is in French, with a picture, the second one in English, without a picture.

    You will see that the French link connects the symbols to the transliteration "psḏ" (psd, in case your font doesn't display that correctly), and that the English page connects that same transliteration to "9" as well. (With suffices -w and -t for male and female.)

    ReplyDelete
  44. For those not in chat: Shi has proposed "men, mankind" as an alternative to "people"; here is a comparison of the glyphs.
    There exist alternative versions of "men, mankind" without the woman (B1) as well.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Update from chat: Apo pointed out that what we have as "morning" right now can also be "tomorrow" (as well as "dawn" or "the morrow").

    ReplyDelete
  46. Well if it's tomorrow then we're screwed...cause wouldn't that have been yesterday?

    ReplyDelete
  47. @anon: Toni confirmed Tuesday on Twitter.

    I have created yet another updated picture summary. As you can see, the main points of confusion are still fitting The Man into 1:2, and the lack of a 100% accurate translation of 2:4. All translations with similar glyphs, be it "people", "men", "mankind" or others usually denote generic groups of people, though - therefore, while are still not sure what exact group it is, we can be pretty sure it is some sort of group of people.



    And the MdC code again, for my own reference and anyone who wants to work with it:

    ReplyDelete
  48. Gah. Of course forgot the code:
    D46-D58-V28-F18-A2-!=40% +l Ask for (or "beg") +s !-T18-S29-D54-A2-D21:D37-!=40% +l follow (?) [man] give (?) +s !=40% +l Chas and +s !=40% +l Mitch +s !=150%

    W17-N35:X1-P2-!=40% +l fare southward +s !-N14-G1-G43-N5-!=40% +l morning (see app. A) +s !-W17-N35:X1-!=40% +l earlier +s !-D21:V13:X1-A1-B1-!=40% +l "people" or "men" (see App. B) +s !=120%

    +l flight QF +s !=80% Q3-S29-I10-Z2:Z2:Z2-!=40% +l 9 +s !-T22-W24:(Z1*Z1)-!=40% +l 2 +s
    !-Z1*Z1*Z1*Z1-Z1-!=30% +l 5 +s !=60% +l It's URGENT!!! +s !=40% +l Now who's the idiot +s !=40% +l Bray?

    +s !=120% +l - Appendix A - +s !=40% +l The word for "morning"/"dawn" can +s !=40% +l also mean "tomorrow"; given that Toni +s !=40% +l confirmed Tuesday via Twitter, we are +s !=40% +l focusing on "morning" at the moment. +s !=40% +l (As Tuesday was not tomorrow +s !=40% +l when the note was posted.)

    +s !=80% +l - Appendix B - +s !=40% +l A little insight on the "people" problem: +s !=40% +l We have this: +s !-D21:V13:X1-A1-B1-!=80% +l Existing glyphs we found so far are:
    +s !-D21:V13-A1001-!=40% +l which is "people", and +s !-D21:V13:X1-A1:Z2:B1-!=40% +l "men, mankind"

    (my kingdom for an edit button)

    ReplyDelete
  49. So close. We just seem to be missing one vital piece.

    ReplyDelete
  50. I have gone through yet another dictionary - still nothing, but, again, the combination half circle man woman always comes up in words like "family", "kindred", "relatives", "associates", "Egyptians", "crowd" etc., whereas the eye and the skipping rope for themselves, as part of a word, could mean "now" or "but", and continuously pop up in words like "people", "men" or "mankind".

    I believe what is meant could be "group of friends" or something - an indeterminate group of associates.

    That is not based on any fact, it's just a general feeling - the symbol looks like a mesh of the general "close people" and "group of people" elements.

    And, quote from chat just now:
    <BronzeGolem> the small t sound (the semi circle thing) should give a certain context to the people, like arm, semi circle and man and women mean first generation instead of just people

    ReplyDelete
  51. I dunno...it could mean a variety of things.

    "Asking for guidance Chas and Mitch / Flying south in the morning earlier, friends / flight QF925"
    or
    "Asking for you to follow Chas and Mitch / Flying south in the morning earlier, friends / flight QF925"
    or
    "Asking to follow Chas and Mitch / Men flying south in the morning earlier / flight QF925"
    or
    "Begging to be allowed to follow you, Chas and Mitch / Flying south in the morning earlier, friends / flight QF925"

    I have searched every dictionary I could find so far. I can't find a direct translation for 1:2 and 2:4.

    We need more eyes. (D4)

    ReplyDelete
  52. Hopefully we got enough, but yea more optical processing capabilities would definately help!

    ReplyDelete
  53. I only just returned, and am now focusing on cross-checking
    Toni's
    dbH=i smsi.tw=i rDi.w

    hnti dw3.w hnt rmT

    One interesting thing I found out through the transliteration "hnt" is that there exists a symbol that is very, very similar to what we have as "earlier", just with one "Amphora" more - it means "in front of".

    ReplyDelete
  54. I put the latin characters from Toni, assuming it to be MdC, into the commonly used transliteration symbols; that is important because the "h"-like symbol in "in front of" is different than the "h" in "earlier:

    http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9756/tonitweet.png

    The MdC table I found did not provide a "translation" of "r", so I put in the commonly used hieroglyph for that (the eye).

    First line is Toni's tweet.
    Second line symbols are copy-pasted from the reference.
    Third line is re-typed for typographic clearance.

    If you see those words in dictionaries next to hieroglyphs, scream.

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  55. While rmT, again, is used for both "people" as well as "men, mankind", it is used nine times in this dictionary, for a number of different hieroglyph sets (some far from what we were given), and every single time, no matter the symbols, rmT equals "man, men, mankind, Egyptians".

    If we're going by dictionary majority vote, rmT means "men".

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  56. I'm not sure what exactly dbH=i smsi.tw=i rDi.w is supposed to tell us just yet, but I can say that I just found dbH in this dictionary (page 34, top left), again meaning "ask for" and "beg", with the addition "requisition (from)".

    Maybe that addition is the key? I'll keep searching for the equal meanings.

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  57. That is top right btw. *blames it on the hieroglyphs*

    Also: FUCK I'M DUMB.
    = is the grammatical separator in MdC. Male symbols are also commonly used for seperation. I think what she tried to tell us are that the first page is compromised of these groups.

    That would create the groups [ask for/beg/requisition (from)] [follow/accompany/serve/bring/present] [give/put/place/cause/permit/grant].

    If I am right.

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  58. scribd.com-based dictionary has 2:1 as "sail upstream, travel southward"; since before we had "fare southward, sail upstream", I'm going with "travel southward" from now on. Ultimately, it's the same meaning, and it sounds less weird.

    In addition, I have the following to ponder: The glyph at the beginning of "earlier" is W17. We have found that word to mean "earlier" before. The transliteration Toni gave also fits glyph W18, which is the same glyph, only with an additional (4) amphora. According to Wikipedia, these glyphs are variants of each other, and the meanings given for W18-N35:X1 are indeed similar to what we had before:

    - first (in time)
    - in front of, among, from, out of

    These have same hieroglyphs (W18-N35:X1), but are listed with a different transliteration. While we did find W17-N35:X1 with a matching transliteration, it is interesting to note that "earlier" has a different one in this dictionary (namely, hntw, rather than just hnt).
    Additional meanings are:
    - before, earlier
    - foremost, pre-eminent in, principal, protruding
    - who / which is in front of, southern, south of, who is at the head of

    As said - these consist of the same glyphs, but have a different transliteration than Toni sent.

    How does that change things? Well, W18-N35:X1 is not what 2:3 shows - but it does match the line sent via twitter, and the meanings are similar.
    Since we did get the message to help clear things up, and the "earlier" is disturbing the message, maybe we should focus on the other meanings?

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  59. Hopefully we can get a more exact match for pg2,ln4

    http://twitpic.com/2e31r

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  60. Wikipedia has the same transliteration (hnt) listed as an adverb, meaning "before".

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  61. I think, according to the additional transliteration symbols Toni provided, that the first page should go into this direction:

    (I/me/my) (ask for/beg) (I/me/my) (follow/accompany/serve/bring/present) (this/that/these/those) (give/put/place/cause/permit/grant) (Chas and Mitch).

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  62. Someone in chat randomly guessed "I ask for my followers to give this to Chas and Mitch" earlier. I believe that could work out, with the additional grammar information.

    It would probably work out to "I beg [those] following me to give this [to] Chas and Mitch".

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  63. Gah. I am confused about word order.

    In Egyptian, a verbal sentence should have the order
    1. Verb
    2. Subject
    3. Object
    4. Adverb or Adverbial Phrase (preposition with noun)

    The ending .w in nouns supposedly means "masculine plural", and only in very, very obscure cases masculine singular.

    we have: "travel southward mornings first/before/among people/men"

    That would make the sentence
    "Mornings travel southward among people"
    but with meaning of "several mornings couldn't be arsed to just take place in time and took a vacation". As in, a group of periods in time moved physically. It makes no sense at all. x_x

    Of course, in this particular case, it could not be a suffix at all, or it could be Nominalization of a verb, thus keeping "the morning". It would still make it the subjective, though.

    She could also not travel among people, but before people. Not to mention, iirc, the plane is scheduled to arrive at 3:55 PM, so she's not exactly traveling in the mornings.

    Of course, one could argue that stareaglechickencircle modifies the morning, which would make the whole thing "Firt morning travel southward people" or "Before morning travel southward people", or, if you want to use "tomorrow", even "Before tomorrow travel southward people". Needless to say, both the "first morning" as well as "tomorrow" after the message have already passed, and do not coincidence with Tuesday (today).

    Keep in mind that currently "men" looks more probably than "people", and likely, it's a word like "friends" anyway. It doesn't have to be people, I just had to pick a word.



    Any ideas from anyone?

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  64. Since there exists a word dwAt/dw3t, and the -t would be the corresponding female singular noun suffix, I am inclined to believe they are both Nominalizations of dwA/dw3. That would mean it's not a plural morning, but still the subject.

    travel southward also is a transitive verb. So the object ("people") should be connected to it. It could be "In the morning traveling southward to friends". (Which sounds fine, but is in fact grammatically incorrect. Also, the usual note about menpeopleegyptians.)

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  65. Not sure if we are out of time, but we have to be very close to the solution.

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  66. I just discovered the phonetics for the mystery glyph again. The "r" "ch" and "t" bring up the word ratchet for me. A definition for "ratchet" is "force something up or down: to force something such as prices or political rhetoric to rise or fall in level or intensity by deliberately applying pressure in successive and irreversible stages"

    Could this definition have something to do with the fortunes of the Order?

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  67. Toni gave us rmT as the transliteration of that word, which matches not only D21:V13:X1-A1-B1, but also several other very similar collective nouns.

    While that is interesting, I don't think it's necessary to take the word apart.

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  68. <mm|Bot> the twitter person thinks it stands for "everyone" ren

    Given that we expected a collective noun, "everyone" would of course fit in.

    "before morning travel southward everyone"?
    "morning travel southward before everyone"?
    "travel southward before morning everyone"?

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  69. Just linking this for completeness' sake.

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