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Friday, March 12, 2010

Final Thoughts.

by SNL

LG15 is dead.

And I don't mean the girl. Well, she's dead too, but I'm talking about the series. The Show is Yours fails to bring in the viewers LG15 once did. A few dozen people (maybe) watch now, and the community frankly seems a lot more lifeless. And a big hint: The Creators have moved on.

Read the full post: http://kidswatchlg15too.blogspot.com/2010/03/final-thoughts.html


  1. Yup, LG15 is dead, no two ways about it.
    I miss those days too, but had it kept going, we'd probably be sick to death of it by now. When shows overstay their audience, it starts to get a bit corny y'know.
    I think of all the great shows the concept gave birth to,
    CassieIsWatching, Opaphid, Maddison Atkins, World Files, Will-O-Wisp to name just a few, and I disagree that TSIY has no staying power. It's a brilliant concept if you think about it.
    Yeah, most of the casual fans are gone, and us obsessed ones are still hanging by a fairly sturdy thread.
    LG15 saw popularity after people found out she was an actress. That in itself can never happen again. The webshow is in full bloom now, and those with cameras should take advantage of it.

  2. The key we need to learn with TSIY is how to grow the audience. The demands of the show are such that it is hard to both produce the show and market it. However, the days of build it and they will come are long gone. For TSIY to thrive we as a community need to learn how to build the audience but for that to happen the producer of TSIY needs to work with the community to make sure everything works together. Even with a best case scenario it is still a tough road, but if done right it could be done.

  3. As long as the original LG15 videos stay online, the series will always be alive to me. Metaphorically.

    Seriously, How many entries will there be to TSIY3?

  4. (1/3)

    "They would talk for hours in LG15Chat, maybe about something not even lonelygirl-related. Unforunately, that is all gone now."

    Chat is gone? Then where the hell did we just talk about this post?

    Where the hell am I? o_O

    Frankly, I think the article is overly dramatic and one-sided, obviously triggered by BreeFM's recent announcement.

    While yes, BreeFM does not have its old glory, and, as a long-time community member, the thought of it being gone strikes me as weird, one has to be realistic here: BreeFM has been independent for a long time. Yes, there was a definite connection to the LG15 community, and yes, new community members inevitably came in contact with BreeFM.
    But it's a matter of fact that many regulars of BreeFM haven't actually watched LG15 for a long time for various reasons. They did not stick around BreeFM for a loyalty to LG15 - they stuck around BreeFM for BreeFM. And that's a good thing, actually. It means that Mike managed to turn BreeFM into an entity of its own. It wasn't just an extension of LG15, it was its own, independent project, with its own, independent community. Said community may have intersected with the LG15 community, but their love for the one was independent from their love for the other.

    Point being: While the death of BreeFM is sad, its demise is more related to its own community than to LG15's "death".
    I guess the best way to explain it is in generations: BreeFM's community comes from the first generation of the community. People who joined for the original LG15. Sure, there were additions from later times over the years, but the very core of BreeFM listeners closely intersects with the core of the original LG15 community.
    As Mike himself put it: "Our beloved web series is no more and now fans run the show (is yours). [...] The fabric of the community has changed [...]".

    The problem for/with BreeFM is not that LG15 is dead. The problem is that BreeFM is a remnant of the old community, of EQAL times.
    Those times are gone. The majority of vocal people in the community today became active during The Resistance or even later. Many members of today's community are from the second, third, or maybe even fourth generation of it. These people don't have a connection as intimate to BreeFM as us old-timers do. They know it exists, some may even visit its chat, but they don't have any shared past with it. They weren't there for live broadcasts from the San Francisco live event, for example. They weren't there for IRC prom. Safe for maybe Glenn, they've never witnessed one of the classic DJs in a show with dozens of listeners. I won't say they don't care, but I do think they simply don't care much.
    BreeFM was a station of the lonelygirl15 community. They are not the lonelygirl15 community. They are the The Resistance community, the The Last community, the Outbreak community.
    All the LG15 community. All having seen most or all of the franchise, all staying out of the same love and addiction for it.
    But with a different history, different associations and different status quo.

    What does that mean, then?
    It means that BreeFM's death is a sign of how far in the past the glorious old times of this community lie.
    It does not mean that the LG15 franchise is dead.
    It means the current LG15 community just isn't the community BreeFM was founded for.

  5. (2/3)

    So if you take BreeFM's death out of the picture, what remains?
    - A successful TSIY series in 2009, that, while it didn't pull in big view counts, has greatly entertained its viewers and will be fondly remembered as one of the better times of the franchise.
    - A not-quite-as-entertaining TSIY series, which, thanks to better marketing and exposure, still manages to pull greater view counts, and even gets to do a 12in12.
    - Multiple people or teams pondering submitting for TSIY3, provided there is one.
    - Still new people or people coming out of lurking.

    Let me make this very clear: Even though Outbreak is a nicely-edited sleeping pill that we were kind of happy to see gone, thanks to the embeds and better marketing, it still pulls in greater view counts than The Last.
    So if the worse TSIY series gets more viewers, simply because they're promoted better, what less is that than hope?

    What this means is that The Last wasn't such a small blip on the radar because it sucked, but simply because it had no promotion outside the community at all. Had The Last's creators gotten interviews and articles on news sites, had The Last gotten embeds on the oft-visited YouTube accounts, the amount of exposure and resultant user surge would have been far greater.
    We had 2 series in 2008 (S3 and TR)
    We had 1 series in 2009 (The Last)
    We had 1 series in 2010 so far (Outbreak), and there's more than enough room for a second one in the fall
    Objectively, the franchise is still going.
    The exposure, the marketing and the community are what's gone.

    So think about it: Why is the community in the fucked up state it is?
    - No common ground: I don't mean in terms of story and viewing, I mean in terms of a place that we all visit. Every since EQAL wiped the site the first time, there has not been a single, central gathering point for the community. The more active, live dozen of us gathers in chat, a few other people stay in the comment boards, some people live over at Anchor Cove, some lurk around here, some stay on YouTube as subscribers. There are a few intersections, yes, but a single focal point as lonelygirl15.com was back in the day does not exist anymore. We are factions and fractions of a community, rather than one united body with different forms of expression.
    - Counter-productive community members: Those would be the ones smothering TSIY through their delusional cries of "I hope this ends soon so EQAL does The Resistance 2" or those trying to kill any move for improvement with comments along the lines of "nobody cares for X, stop making a fuzz". The ever-obedient EQAL-disciples living in the past, waiting for EQAL to turn around and embrace us, returning the community to the state it had. It's just not going to happen, and to hinder the embracement and improvement of the status quo, by insisting on a dream world, is detrimental to the community as a whole.
    - Low exposure/low influx of new community members: There are just not too many new people, and old ones leave daily, as the article shows. It would be great if EQAL actually made good on its bold claims of helping TSIY creators by letting them leverage the oh-so-great exposure of the EQALsphere, but the fact of the matter is, being affiliated with EQAL doesn't mean jack shit, and just because you have an Umbrella doesn't mean you're a new media sensation.

  6. (3/3)

    Yes, it's EQAL's fault. EQAL killed the site and replaced it with one we didn't want, EQAL stopped producing, and EQAL stopped marketing.
    But none of that truly requires EQAL to fix:
    - We can find a new, common home. We just all have to go there. It's as simple as that. If the community refuses to unite, that's not EQAL's fault, and that's not the franchise's fault. It's the fault of every single community member who chooses not to belong, to fracture, to splinter.
    - The delusional and backwards can accept reality and embrace non-EQAL LG15. Their refusal to do so is not EQAL's fault, and not the franchise's. At this point, community members not supporting TSIY are community members not supporting the continuation of the franchise. It's as simple as that. TSIY is the source of videos for LG15 at the moment. If you want LG15 videos, accept and support TSIY. If you can't do that, then you're the reason the franchise has no support.
    - And yes, we, the community, can get in touch with online video news sites and ask them what they need to provide greater coverage of TSIY series. We can provide better entry points for new members than the godforsaken piece of shit Umbrella is. We may not be EQAL, but we have enough voices to be heard, and we have our fingers in enough communities. The decision to leave TSIY without promotion, as much as it hurts to say that, was ours. Yes, EQAL is to blame for not doing anything, since they're in a vastly better position to promote TSIY, and haven't done anything. But the fact that few of us did anything to promote TSIY is just as much our fault.

    EQAL has, through inaction, apathy, and a rare word or two, made very clear that they will not invest more into this franchise than absolutely necessary.
    But that does not mean it's dead.
    It just leaves the responsibility with us.

    LG15 is not dead, unless EQAL decides not to sponsor a TSIY3.

    Let me, again, make this clear: I am not denying everything we had is gone. Bree is dead, our site is gone, EQAL has forsaken us. It's undeniable times have changed.
    What I'm saying is, that doesn't mean there's nothing there.
    Times may suck, but we still get series to watch, and we can improve conditions, if we work together.

    How much we care for LG15, what climate there is in the community, how united we are and how much exposure the next series gets, is up to us.
    But sitting back, longing for the old days, and lamenting the supposed death of LG15, doesn't change anything.
    Either one accepts EQAL is gone and doesn't give a shit, and takes what there is and makes the best of it, or not.

    LG15 is what it is now. It's not Bree's time anymore, it's not EQAL's time anymore.
    It's a new community.

    It's everyone's own choice whether they join the new community or not.
    But if you choose not to, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and it doesn't mean it's dead.

    It just means you choose not to be part of LG15 anymore.

  7. Great comments Ren!!! You raise a lot of really good points. There is nothing more fun than watching someone new come into chat excited because they have just watched an LG15 video (either from the original series or TSIY).

    There is still something very alive within this community and with each TSIY we learn more about what it takes to market and help promote the series. No one should be expected to support a TSIY just because it was created by someone from the community but if we enjoy the show then we do need to accept a share of the responsibility for helping promote it and bringing in new viewers.

    We cannot be content with view counts alone because this is a show that relies on viewer engagement and participation to make it work. To that end everyone from the producer of TSIY to the newest fan has a key role to play but it is one we must play as a "team" or we will be doomed. What I mostly agree with is the fact that our destiny is in our hands and the future is up to us. TSIY is a great opportunity for us as a community to show what can be done if we all work together.

    Hopefully we will have the opportunity to demonstrate that with a TSIY-3!!!

  8. It's a little late, so I don't have full time to respond to all of Gade's comments. I will respond to two points.

    1. "Chat is dead" - I had forgotten that chat was more alive these days. My apologies :)

    2. "This is triggered by BreeFM's announcement." - This one makes me a little concerned. It clearly states in my post that I have planned this for at least a week. I woke up this morning planning to make it, and happened to find the BreeFM announcement first. Make no mistake I've been planning this for a long time.

  9. I just realized I said "planning" about 600 times in that last comment. Sorry. I'm tired. :)

  10. ...I'm kind of secretly hoping that 'Outbreak' does a complete 180 during the 12in12 and just completely screws with people's heads. Make an ending that is completely over-the-top and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Final nail in the coffin, so to speak.

  11. is there really anything more scary than opening the comments to a lg15today post and seeing

    "Renegade said ... (1/3)"

    1 of 3!!!

    I distill his response down to this:

    SNL: LG15 Is dead!
    Renegade: It depends on your definition of "dead".

    I took SNL's description as a non-literal, but substantially accurate description of the decline of an online community. There's nothing wrong about that. I'd say the TSIY community is pretty small, but that's ok, people who enjoy being around will stick around. Its always been that way.

    When you think about early LG15 post-outing, i.e., the fall of 2006, it is frankly amazing to consider that tons of people would be online at all times for a show that released maybe 3 minutes of content maybe 4 days of the week. that kind of phenomenal reaction to something is very rare.

  12. wow, awesome posts Renegade. I vote Renegade for president

    You know the community really is dieing when renegade makes a post and no anonymooses show up to troll him, I almost feel tempted to do it myself (even doth I agree with everything he said), just for the sake of continuity

  13. The interesting thing is the new burst of vitality that exists in LG15 Chat. While other areas seem to struggle chat has been fun of late. Perhaps that is a sign of good things to come.


  15. I WANT TSIY3!!! I have lots of ideas!! Anyone have a camera? Oh and I'll call Jackson, let's get on with this......


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