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Thursday, March 5, 2009

LGPedia Under Attack!

Some time back we had an article describing systematic censorship of the fan created LGPedia by Eqal, Inc. At that time, Eqal, Inc. claimed that such censorship was required to protect the privacy of Eqal, Inc. employees and other real world individuals. To that end Eqal, Inc. took it upon themselves to lock these pages and instructed that these pages could only be edited with information approved by Eqal, Inc. At that time many people agreed that privacy was an important consideration despite the fact that the LGPedia admins have always been sensitive to this issue and ensured, on a totally voluntary basis, that LGPedia pages were in line with the individuals desires and requests. Over time many have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the "real world" content on LGPedia because in some cases employees go on to have their own successful projects and Eqal, Inc. appears to be afraid of the competition.

The latest barrage of insults came today when at the instructions of Amanda Goodfried (Director of Marketing, Eqal, Inc.) a significant number of pages were simply deleted from LGPedia without consultation with the community. These pages were for the most part merely mirrors of public information available on Eqal's own web site, and their investors. Eqal, Inc. seems to think it is their "Eqalpedia" and they can do what they want. Perhaps in a legal sense that is true, but in terms of how LGPedia has always been operated by fans this is simply not acceptable corporate behavior.

163 comments:

  1. oooooh, it's Fox News time again?
    Awesome! *gets his discussion hat*


    No, seriously. To provide the information our favorite populist left out, the deleted pages are

    * Template:Eqalindex
    * Annette Zajaczkowski
    * Claudio Chiuchiarelli
    * Georges Harik
    * Marc Andreessen
    * Ron Conway
    * Conrad Riggs
    * Spark Capital
    * Jill Siegel
    * Meredith Hewson
    * Todd Rimes
    * Tyler Rubin

    ...does anyone even recognize these names? Most of these people are investors, one is a publicist, one is an assistant, one is an Engineering Director.
    In other words, people entirely unrelated to the production of lonelygirl15, The Resistance or The Last

    You yourself said, model: This is LGPedia, not EQALpedia. It exists to chronicle LG15, not EQAL.
    So tell me - why should the investors of EQAL be on an encyclopedia about the lonelygirl15 universe?



    Independently from that, the entire notion that EQAL attacked is bullshit as well. The fact of the matter is that it was FH14 who deleted the pages. It may have been on request, but given that Amanda gained admin rights on the same day as him, and last time, they sent BK to do the dirty work, they clearly could've done it themselves, and definitely kept more distance than last time.

    Sure, you can question whether FH14 is just a marionette of the Cs, but the fact stands: This time, they let pedia admins do pedia work, rather than intruding themselves. That's a lot friendlier than last time.
    Sure, you can question why this wasn't announced in any way - but let's be honest: The only people who are left editing LGPedia are FH14 and Kevin. What's supposed to happen? FH14 posting on the Balcony to let Kevin know Amanda requested some irrelevant people to be deleted? What exactly did you expect? Amanda posting on Inside about this? These were irrelevant people.

    If they start censoring the pages on the Creators, then you can rally the troops. Not for random loan sharks nobody cares about.



    So yeah...I guess it was another slow news day. The credibility of this blog would increase immensely if you didn't invent a scandal every second day just because the view counts drop.
    Or if you at least cited sources or provided data for a change.
    Or, in fact, did anything that was even remotely close to journalism, rather than just plain populism and polemic.




    Btw: If you want a real personnel-lg15 related story, why not pressure the Cs on why the production credits of Season 3 have not been provided for anything after "Blood Will Flow", which, coincidentally, is exactly the writing period in which We're Screwed! was written? All before are there, and The Resistance seems to have credits as well. Just when they screwed up gigantically and made Sarah evil, the writing credits are suddenly unavailable.
    That is interesting.

    ReplyDelete
  2. (Deletion log); 22:17 . . FH14 (Talk | contribs) (deleted "Tyler Rubin": by request of Amanda)

    I know all the names, and the investors are what make the web site possible because they invested in the technology. They are therefore significant to the production.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Thanks for keeping us informed about the deletions, modelmotion.

    Thanks Renegade for your point about requesting deletion for irrelevant pages; I've been looking for another reason to nominate my own page there.

    ReplyDelete
  4. If you knew the names, why did you neglect to add them to the post?
    If you knew it wasn't EQAL deleting the pages, but a pedia admin, which is vastly different than last time, why did you neglect to add that to the post?

    Why did you try to make it look like this was EQAL running in and censoring important data, when it was, in fact, a pedia admin deleting pages which are of no significance at all to the lonelygirl15 universe?

    And, by your logic, LGPedia needs pages on the following people:
    * Tim Berners-Lee (Developer of the early WWW)
    * Nicola Pellow (Developer of the first multi-platform browser)
    * Marc Andreessen and Eric Bina (Developers of Mosaic)
    * Chad Hurley, Steve Chen and Jawed Karim (Founders of YouTube)
    * Matt Mullenweg, Ryan Boren, Donncha O Caoimh (Developers of Wordpress)
    * James Atkinson, Nathan Codding, John Abela (Developers of phpBB)
    * All the code monkeys who wrote the current broken POS

    Without any of these people, and hundreds more, the web site and the series would not exist. By your logic, each of them needs an LGPedia page asap.

    Then again, the truth, of course, is that that's bullshit. The investors maybe fundamental to the foundation of EQAL, but, as we are all painfully aware, the Cs aren't even allowed to touch the investment money for LG15, and EQAL is active in a lot of other stuff.
    The investors are important to EQAL not to LG15.
    So unless you do want to turn this into EQALpedia, and include every single mail man who ever brought paperwork to EQAL (because without the paperwork, EQAL wouldn't exist/get jobs/whatever, and without EQAL, there would be no Resistance), I guess we can live without knowing the favorite food of a random dude who gave money to EQAL in the past.

    ReplyDelete
  5. We said that the instructions to delete the pages came from Eqal and we stand by that position. This was censorship by Eqal plain and simple. If they want to deny it then be our guest. Let's have it Miles? Amanda? Anyone? Did not think so.

    In terms of tech we are talking about the tech for the LG15.com web site. We specifically said the "tech" part of LG15, so please read what we write accurately.

    ReplyDelete
  6. The point of this article is to focus on the bigger picture.

    "Over time many have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the "real world" content on LGPedia because in some cases employees go on to have their own successful projects and Eqal, Inc. appears to be afraid of the competition."

    That is the real issue here.

    ReplyDelete
  7. There is a right that no one from EQAL can ever take from you, the right to participate. If you don't like it, don't participate. Or start a fan run wiki where you can't be touched. When will you learn bitching about it never works. This isn't Facebook.

    ReplyDelete
  8. @model:
    1. Who "many"?
    If you claim there are many users who "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia" , it should be easy to name names.

    2. Can you back the claim that this "censorship" "appears to happen" to silence competition up, or is this just random speculation? (As usual.)

    3. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Please explain how 12 pages are "a significant number of pages" (direct quote).

    4. I have read what you said accurately.
    The creation of the world wide web, youtube, wordpress and phpbb are all directly related to the tech side of the web page that broadcasted lg15 to the world before the resistance.

    If a random dude who gave money to code the website is important enough to be on lgpedia, because without his money, the website wouldn't exist, then, by the same logic, your logic, the creators of YouTube have to be on lgpedia as well, because their video hosting service is integral to the technical delivery of the series on the website.

    The WWW. YouTube. WordPress. phpBB. All these are important parts of the tech behind the website.

    If you insist that the investors are on LGPedia because their money is important to the tech behind LG15, then the creators of all technology powering it must be as well.

    Same logic. Your logic.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "2. Can you back the claim that this "censorship" "appears to happen" to silence competition up, or is this just random speculation? (As usual.)"

    - just try adding a new project for any former employee whose page has been locked by Eqal, Inc. on LGPedia. It speaks for itself. Any changes have to be approved by Eqal and that is what we stated in the article.

    ReplyDelete
  10. What "speaks for itself" is that you ignored all the other questions.

    And your logic is flawed there. If the page is locked, of course the change needs approval.

    The question is, can you back up that they locked it to prevent someone to write about competing entities?

    ReplyDelete
  11. The scope of what is covered on LGPedia is up to the community. Since these pages have existed on LGPedia for some time clearly they were within bounds. When a page is out of bounds their is an established pedia process for challenging it. An example of that would be the Sofia's Diary page. The standard procedure was simply not followed here because Eqal chose to censor LGPedia.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Still ignoring multiple questions I asked about backing up multiple claims, ranging from the number of users upset to whether you can prove this is done to censor competition.

    In reply to your post:
    The deletion policy clearly states: "Other pages will typically go through a discussion process of no less than one week. For larger articles, this discussion period can be extended. " - Emphasis added. Not only does the policy talk about pages nominated for deletion by "mortal" users, not administrative decisions or even EQAL directions, but it specifically says that, even in a case where a normal user has nominated a page for deletion, a discussion will not happen in all cases.

    If you check the deletion log, you will find numerous pages who have been deleted by the administration without discussion, e.g. "Category:Jeremy Terrell filmography" or "Template:Ssfree".

    There is no pedia policy basis to complain about this. There is no guarantee for a discussion before deletion.
    You can complain about that fact, but no one violated pedia policies.

    ReplyDelete
  13. ...are you serious? You really have nothing better to do?

    ReplyDelete
  14. We have been around since the beginning of LGPedia and never seen anything like this. This is just censorship plain and simple. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the pages that were deleted since they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site. The LGPedia entries just made the public information available to fans in a more convenient format and there is no excuse for them being removed without at least and open discussion.

    On the question of Eqal being afraid of competition it is understandable for any business to be afraid of competition. However when that paranoia extends to active censorship of a fan run and created pedia it has in our opinion gone way too far.

    ReplyDelete
  15. And because I am currently not doing anything else, I'll be so nice to sum up the questions model left open so far:
    1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, giving readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?
    2. If model knew it was actually an LGPedia admin deleting things, why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack", where pedia integrity was clearly violated by having BK delete things above the heads of pedia admins?
    3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?
    4. Who are the "many" users who supposedly "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia"?
    5. What basis does model have to allege that the intention behind "EQAL's" locking and deleting of pages is to make sure competing entities are not mentioned on LGPedia?
    6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?

    New ones:
    7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal? So you go to EQAL for EQAL information, and LGPedia for LG15 information. Sounds like reasonable content separation to me.
    8. Is model actually going to address these questions or just going to ramble on about how this is evil, evil censorship and many users are upset about the significant number of pages deleted.....without actually providing a single shred of evidence for any of these claims? (As usual.)

    ReplyDelete
  16. Can this community survive without drama? Honestly? Is it so necessary that we have drama that we have to create it out of nothing?

    This is being blown so far out of proportion it's not even funny. The purpose of the LGPedia is not to provide information on random EQAL investors. They have nothing to do with LG15 other than that they threw some money at EQAL. Does anyone reading about LG15 really need to know (or even care) about Conrad Riggs or Jill Siegel?

    NO!

    This is perhaps the most minor thing to happen in the history of the universe. Get over it. The LGPedia is a fan-run wiki, yes, but it is hosted and paid for by the Creators and they can do whatever they want with it. If you don't like it, start your own wiki and pay the hosting costs yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  17. modelmotion, you really need a new hobby. this is pathetic.

    ReplyDelete
  18. "3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?"

    The appropriate place for that discussion to take place is LGPedia. That was the point. It should have been justified there.

    Redik, as stated earlier the issue here is the locking and censorship of pages on LGPedia by Eqal. There is simply no reason and no excuse for that to happen since the admins are quite capable of taking care of anything needed on a voluntary basis. That would open up the pages to fan edits as they should be on any pedia.

    Eqal probably has the legal right to do this and this is not in question. However do they have the "moral right" given that the pedia was created and is run by fans?

    ReplyDelete
  19. "However do they have the 'moral right' given that the pedia was created and is run by fans?"

    Yes, I believe so. And I think that the community at large agrees. EQAL didn't want that information on the LGPedia (for whatever reason - does it really matter), so they asked one of the handful of remaining fan editors to remove it.

    Again, not a big deal in my eyes. I'm struggling to see how this is really an issue at all, and trust me when I say that I'm honestly trying.

    ReplyDelete
  20. The picture of the alien ship from War of The Worlds hovering over a decimated city is pretty cool though.

    ReplyDelete
  21. 1 out of 7, ignoring questions about basic facts behind the original posts. Are you sure you don't want to apply for a job at Fox News, model?

    Oh, btw - even on that one question, you didn't actually answer the question. You are trying to move the discussion elsewhere, after you yourself brought it up: "[...]the investors are what make the web site possible because they invested in the technology. They are therefore significant to the production."

    So yeah.

    Questions currently unanswered:
    1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, giving readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?
    2. If model knew it was actually an LGPedia admin deleting things, why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack", where pedia integrity was clearly violated by having BK delete things above the heads of pedia admins?
    3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?
    4. Who are the "many" users who supposedly "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia"?
    5. What basis does model have to allege that the intention behind "EQAL's" locking and deleting of pages is to make sure competing entities are not mentioned on LGPedia?
    6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?
    7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal? So you go to EQAL for EQAL information, and LGPedia for LG15 information. Sounds like reasonable content separation to me.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I believe it was aiming at the people beating the dead horse originally...

    ReplyDelete
  23. Thanks Joe. A good pix says everything. The 436 may be closer than we think!

    ReplyDelete
  24. "1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, giving readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?"

    - next time I will get you to write the article Ren since you appear to be so much smarter than everyone else.

    ReplyDelete
  25. "3. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Please explain how 12 pages are "a significant number of pages" (direct quote)."

    - The Eqal, Inc. censorship only applies to the locked portion of LGPedia (commonly known as Eqalpedia) so it would probably be more accurate to do your arithmetic on that basis.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Again ignoring the question/s. Are you ever going to answer them?

    And no, it's not a thing of being smarter. It's a thing of actually providing the basic facts of the story, instead of making one up out of thin air. Given that I usually am the one giving the facts after you invented a scandal, it wouldn't make much of a difference anyway.



    Questions currently unanswered:
    1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, giving readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?
    2. If model knew it was actually an LGPedia admin deleting things, why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack", where pedia integrity was clearly violated by having BK delete things above the heads of pedia admins?
    3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?
    4. Who are the "many" users who supposedly "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia"?
    5. What basis does model have to allege that the intention behind "EQAL's" locking and deleting of pages is to make sure competing entities are not mentioned on LGPedia?
    6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?
    7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal? So you go to EQAL for EQAL information, and LGPedia for LG15 information. Sounds like reasonable content separation to me.

    ReplyDelete
  27. How can something be a significant number of something before turning into part of it?

    iow, how can the locked pages be a significant number of the locked pages if they only became part of the number of locked pages by being locked?

    Nice try. Wanna try again?

    ReplyDelete
  28. >>If you don't like it, start your own wiki and pay the hosting costs yourself.<<

    http://www.anchorcove.net/wiki/

    (but like the lgpedia, no one edits it! :-) )

    on the comments to the last censorshipalooza drama, i wrote, in sept 08: "I think that whatever the new guidelines are, they should be made public so fan editors know what is ok and what is not."

    miles replied right after me: "We'll be getting new guidelines out there shortly. Working with BK, Zoey, and others to finalize things."

    shortly hasn't happened yet! :-)

    ReplyDelete
  29. 7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal? So you go to EQAL for EQAL information, and LGPedia for LG15 information. Sounds like reasonable content separation to me.



    I Can answer That..I think it would be more acceptable for it to be listed on LGpedia because it is the Wiki, Information of everything from the Universe.

    Btw, some people don't go to EQAL.com to look at updates. I, myself read the LGpedia daily!

    ReplyDelete
  30. LG15 ≠ EQAL

    The deleted pages have nothing to do with LG15, and the information they contained belong on EQAL's site.

    Talk about much ado about absolutely fricking nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  31. @tjmarsh:
    And how do I know no one stole your notebook to post that? :P


    Seriously though, the answer to your post is simple: You are blurring the lines. The investors behind EQAL, Inc are not part of the universe, therefore the "Information of everything from the Universe" part doesn't apply.

    It's the same logic as in question 3; basically, you're arguing: "We're talking about lonelygirl15, lg15 was made by EQAL, the investors are on EQAL's page, so it should be on LGPedia". And the counter is quite simple: lonelygirl15 was made famous on YouTube, therefore YouTube is significant to the universe (as evident by pedia page). The YouTube press information is on YouTube, therefore, the YouTube press information should be on LGPedia.

    It's the same logic:
    Investors: LG15 -> created by EQAL -> Investors are on EQAL's site
    Press info: LG15 -> broadcasted on YouTube -> Press info is on YouTube.


    Not every information that is on every site that is somehow connected to LG15 automatically and inevitably has to end up on LGPedia.
    By that logic, this entire discussion has to be archived on LGPedia, because LG15 Today is obviously connected to LG15, and this is content on LG15 Today.

    ReplyDelete
  32. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  33. @tjmarsh:
    And how do I know no one stole your notebook to post that? :P


    Seriously though, the answer to your post is simple: You are blurring the lines. The investors behind EQAL, Inc are not part of the universe, therefore the "Information of everything from the Universe" part doesn't apply.

    It's the same logic as in question 3; basically, you're arguing: "We're talking about lonelygirl15, lg15 was made by EQAL, the investors are on EQAL's page, so it should be on LGPedia". And the counter is quite simple: lonelygirl15 was made famous on YouTube, therefore YouTube is significant to the universe (as evident by pedia page). The YouTube press information is on YouTube, therefore, the YouTube press information should be on LGPedia.

    It's the same logic:
    Investors: LG15 -> created by EQAL -> Investors are on EQAL's site
    Press info: LG15 -> broadcasted on YouTube -> Press info is on YouTube.


    Not every information that is on every site that is somehow connected to LG15 automatically and inevitably has to end up on LGPedia.
    By that logic, this entire discussion has to be archived on LGPedia, because LG15 Today is obviously connected to LG15, and this is content on LG15 Today.

    I agree with you, but then we dont need the pages for Amanda Goodfrid or Miles beckkett, or Casey K.
    Or anyone else that is located on the EQAL website and LGpedia.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Nope, wrong application of logic.

    LG15 -> Produced by Amanda
    LG15 -> Created by Miles
    LG15 -> Filmed by Casey

    LG15 -> Produced by EQAL -> Funded by Investors

    Amanda, Miles, Casey and everyone else involved in production have first degree relationships with the show - they are directly involved. The Investors have second degree relationships - they are involved with EQAL, which is involved with LG15.
    That is why EQAL, which is involved with LG15, has a page, and the investors, who are not, don't have to have one.

    ReplyDelete
  35. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I am not trying to disagrees with you. Im just trying to figure stuff out as well.


    But one did web design for the Resistance.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Where's my t-shirt!

    ReplyDelete
  38. Which "one"?

    Besides, this is only a subset of the original questions:

    Questions currently unanswered:
    1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, giving readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?
    2. If model knew it was actually an LGPedia admin deleting things, why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack", where pedia integrity was clearly violated by having BK delete things above the heads of pedia admins?
    3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?
    4. Who are the "many" users who supposedly "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia"?
    5. What basis does model have to allege that the intention behind "EQAL's" locking and deleting of pages is to make sure competing entities are not mentioned on LGPedia?
    6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?
    7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal?

    ReplyDelete
  39. Where's my t-shirt!

    Go complain to someone else.

    Like EQAL?!

    ReplyDelete
  40. maybe i'll do it at lg15nation.com

    ReplyDelete
  41. TJ, if you want to post under sockpuppets, you should make sure the URL you mention doesn't have your name in the WHOIS data.

    Cut it out and talk under your own name like a real man.

    ReplyDelete
  42. 1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, giving readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?

    Maybe Model Motion was wrong on this part..Not attacking him.

    Maybe he thought user's could find the answers through the LGpedia.

    I am not covering for Modelmotion.

    But this is a answer that is up to Model Motion to answer.

    But, i mean attacking the Maker of LG15 Today..is kinda messed up. he was informing us that this had happened.

    And maybe the post was over acted..just a little.

    And i myself was shocked to hear these pages were deleted.

    (Tyler Rubin, i thought)

    ReplyDelete
  43. Yeah..i did posted under Doctwisted..didnt mean too. deleted them to repost with my name.

    ReplyDelete
  44. LG15Originz said...
    maybe i'll do it at lg15nation.com

    Oh gawd, TJ Marsh Part 2

    ReplyDelete
  45. what I find interesting is that the real LG15 Origins uses an s rather than a z on their name,and doesn't appear to be registered on the website in question, at least not by any name he is known to the community by.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Renegade said...
    TJ, if you want to post under sockpuppets, you should make sure the URL you mention doesn't have your name in the WHOIS data.

    Cut it out and talk under your own name like a real man.

    that wasn't me, enough with the drama.

    ReplyDelete
  47. @TJ
    Yeah, I'm sure it's a coincidence you show up, admit to have talked under a different name as well, and then an unregistered user with a similar name to a known one just happens to mention a domain you own.
    But then again, we all know amazing coincidences happen around you all the time.



    I would agree with the "maybe this was a mistake" idea if this was the first time...but at least since he had to admit in the comments of the copyright notice post that he didn't even have the notice in the first place, and no way to check if any of the info in the post was true, it should be clear that model isn't much of a fact-checker. Then there was the deceptively titled "Who Really Killed 'Maddison Atkins'?", where even jeromy himself, whose quote was basically the entire post, agreed the headline was misleading. Now this post, without any facts to back up his numerous claims. (And these are just the ones I found in my recent history.)

    If this was the first time, I would take a mistake into account. But this is just the latest of a number of populist, fact-less posts where model, when, asked, refuses to provide the actual facts or numbers underlying his claims.

    And no, he was not "informing" us. That's the whole point. He concealed the actual information (which exact pages had been deleted by whom, who was actually outraged, what had happened last time, etc., etc.) and instead told us about an EQAL conspiracy to censor competitors' mentionings on LGPedia and supposed attempts to turn LGPedia into a de-facto EQALpedia.
    Not to mention his wide tellings of outrage, while I have yet to see a single one here actually voice support for models' view of things. Even you carefully make sure not to all-out support his "interpretation" of things.

    This was not "informing" us. This was trying to form our opinion for us.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Actually, I am not TJ. I am a 1017 yearz old. Fer realz.

    Buts it nice to see I illustrated errors in Renegade "logic."

    ReplyDelete
  49. (Even you carefully make sure not to all-out support his "interpretation" of things.)

    Honestly i Can't get deeply involved to much.Due to some rules thrown on me, because of past drama's.

    (Then there was the deceptively titled "Who Really Killed 'Maddison Atkins'?", where even jeromy himself, whose quote was basically the entire post, agreed the headline was misleading.)

    I agree the title was misleading as well.
    (@TJ
    Yeah, I'm sure it's a coincidence you show up, admit to have talked under a different name as well, and then an unregistered user with a similar name to a known one just happens to mention a domain you own.
    But then again, we all know amazing coincidences happen around you all the time.)

    Someone is trying to start up more drama, i don't care. i ignore it now.

    ReplyDelete
  50. I use TJ Marsh for my post any others u see that pretend or mention something i did (LG15 nation, which i just registered it).. ignore it.

    All my post have my name.

    ReplyDelete
  51. So your big attempt at trying to disprove that Originz is you.....is having "him" post in the same minute as you?
    Okay then.


    Anyway, we're straying off topic. Model oh model where are you? There are questions I have about your post!

    1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, giving readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?
    2. If model knew it was actually an LGPedia admin deleting things, why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack", where pedia integrity was clearly violated by having BK delete things above the heads of pedia admins?
    3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?
    4. Who are the "many" users who supposedly "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia"?
    5. What basis does model have to allege that the intention behind "EQAL's" locking and deleting of pages is to make sure competing entities are not mentioned on LGPedia?
    6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?
    7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal?

    ReplyDelete
  52. Renegade, like i said, it is not me. how do i know its not you.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Because I have my own URLs to promote, and would choose a higher profile community member.

    ReplyDelete
  54. I have my own, like My blog.


    LG15 Nation is Seth's and another companys project not mine.

    ReplyDelete
  55. I suppose the WHOIS data is another of the many coincidences surrounding you, then.

    Registrant
    TJ Marsh (CTLGDN-537802)
    Unknown
    surprise, az 85379

    Funny how that keeps happening to you, isn't it? Everyone seems to be out to impersonate you!

    ReplyDelete
  56. REad up. i said i registered it. i have owned it for awhile.

    Seth came to me and asked for it..sold for 600 dollars.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Would you feel really stupid if Alex said it was him? You say the community can't seem to live without drama, yet you're causing more than a small controversy over deleted pages in the LGpedia. It was completely irrelevant and you've served your purpose. Leave TJ alone, for all our sakes, and your own.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I use TJ Marsh for my post any others u see that pretend or mention something i did (LG15 nation, which i just registered it)


    Meaning all i did was have the domain.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Better call him up to fix the WHOIS data then. Not that he does weird shit and you get in trouble.

    Model? In the mood for questions?
    1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, in order to give readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?
    2. If model knew it was actually an LGPedia admin deleting things, why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack", where pedia integrity was clearly violated by having BK delete things above the heads of pedia admins?
    3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?
    4. Who are the "many" users who supposedly "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia"?
    5. What basis does model have to allege that the intention behind "EQAL's" locking and deleting of pages is to make sure competing entities are not mentioned on LGPedia?
    6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?
    7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal?

    ReplyDelete
  60. lonelygirl15 said...
    Would you feel really stupid if Alex said it was him? You say the community can't seem to live without drama, yet you're causing more than a small controversy over deleted pages in the LGpedia. It was completely irrelevant and you've served your purpose. Leave TJ alone, for all our sakes, and your own.


    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  61. That would be convincing, if it made any sense at all.

    For one, I didn't even use the word "drama" so far (coincidently, TJ, who that post is in support of, used it thrice so far...maybe Bree stole his notebook and will soon announce his death?).
    For two, I wasn't the one creating a controversy about deleted pedia pages. Model was. Right there, in the original post. I'm the one saying it's not a controversy, and he's fabricating it.

    Get your factions straight.
    If you want to voice support for model's interpretation of things, or want to answer one of the following questions, go right ahead.
    If not, go back to being a victim of the ceremony, please :)

    1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, in order to give readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?
    2. If model knew it was actually an LGPedia admin deleting things, why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack", where pedia integrity was clearly violated by having BK delete things above the heads of pedia admins?
    3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?
    4. Who are the "many" users who supposedly "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia"?
    5. What basis does model have to allege that the intention behind "EQAL's" locking and deleting of pages is to make sure competing entities are not mentioned on LGPedia?
    6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?
    7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal?

    ReplyDelete
  62. You guys REALLY need to be commenting on OUR videos more!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/campbreezybeach

    @_-

    ReplyDelete
  63. Well, as it seems you still can't get over youself long enough to either 1. stop writing a 1,000 word essay everytime you leave a comment, or 2. so despretly post the same questions that obviously don't want to be answered by an inparticular individual. Either way, any topic considered a hot topic here with more than a few comments will spark a controversy for whatever reason. It's life; I've lived with it, so can you.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Wow, Renegade, your constant repetitions really made reading this annoying. I don't think you actually want your questions answered either, you just want to stamp your foot till people say you're right.

    MM, personally, I think people want to be censored and have a controlled environment because it's so much easier and really what's the harm done in deleting some irrelevant information? The Chinese are pretty happy people overall, too. Your fight is pretty much in vain, but thanks for fighting it.

    BTW I have never come back to the actual LG15 website since my comments got censored the first time. And hey I was a regular for a long time. So yeah, I did exercise my right of non-participation.

    Joe, woo hoo for aliens!

    ReplyDelete
  65. LAWL @ lonelygir15, lg15originz; doctwisted commenter’s. And @ the Renegade and TJ comments exchange. All that has accomplished is being a distraction from comments on the topic itself. Can people be mature enough to stop impersonating other people and stick to one account? I highly doubt anyone from EQAL would use Lonleygirl15 to comment as they use their real names.
    I agree with Renegade on this one, this seems like unnecessary drama. Yes pages were deleted but they were done by an LGpedia Admin, asked to by the creators. The information on those pages wasn’t directly related to the LG15 universe and really every single detail about EQAL isn’t necessary, that seems more like Wikipedia’s scope than LGpedia’s. And honestly how many people still care? The amount of fans regularly contributing to LGpedia has dropped dramatically. Slow news day or what?

    ReplyDelete
  66. OMG guys please stop trying to find stupid reasons to bash the C's about. If it'snoone thing then it's something else. Don't make things bigger than they really are just to fill up blog space.
    ~Mitch The one and only(other than the new character Mitch on The Last)

    ReplyDelete
  67. OMG guys please stop trying to find stupid reasons to bash the C's about. If it'snoone thing then it's something else. Don't make things bigger than they really are just to fill up blog space.
    ~Mitch The one and only(other than the new character Mitch on The Last)

    ReplyDelete
  68. Kindred Phantom: "And honestly how many people still care? The amount of fans regularly contributing to LGpedia has dropped dramatically."

    very true.

    i was enjoyed the sideshows in the comments myself. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  69. Crap like this is mm's equivalent to Sarah cleavage shot thumbnails.

    Gotta produce site traffic somehow.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Oh so because I use lonelygirl15 as an alias means I'm impersonating Amanda or perhaps Bree? Really funny guys. I never claimed to be anyone, you just think too hard. I'll clamly go laugh to myself now and leave you to your thinking and hope that LG15today doesn't catch on fire from the heat of this post, as a lot of people are defensive. =\

    ReplyDelete
  71. @"lonelygirl15": The point is that (most of) the others actually have the balls and the character to stand up for a point under their own name, instead of hiding behind a cheaply stolen one like that.

    As for your previous post, I am interested in hearing why I should reduce the letter count of my posts purely because you say so?
    Or just how exactly it is "obvious" I don't want these questions answered?

    Quite the opposite is true, actually - it is because of trolls like you that I have to repeat them over and over again, because, as Kindred pointed out, all the off topic crap in this thread distracts from the original topic - repeating the questions over and over is the only way to return to it every once in a while.

    Then again, we both know you know that. We both know what you were really doing.

    If model just came out and answered the questions, I would be done with them. Alas, to answer them, he would actually have to have more than an invented scandal.

    So, once more, with a very special dedication to "lonelygirl15":
    1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, in order to give readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?
    2. If model knew it was actually an LGPedia admin deleting things, why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack", where pedia integrity was clearly violated by having BK delete things above the heads of pedia admins?
    3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?
    4. Who are the "many" users who supposedly "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia"?
    5. What basis does model have to allege that the intention behind "EQAL's" locking and deleting of pages is to make sure competing entities are not mentioned on LGPedia?
    6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?
    7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal?

    ReplyDelete
  72. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Renegade, you made valid points (way up there), but your delivery method almost negates them.

    You're coming across as petulant and defensive, instead of typing anything that would motivate modelmotion to defend his words.

    The TJ and other off-topic bickering are just further diluting things. Pick a topic and say your peace. Re-typing the same thing over and over, mixed in with your side drama is just annoying and does absolutely nothing to further your opinion of things here.

    To anyone with 1/2 a brain, it's obvious that modelmotion has exaggerated things here. He's been told as much by others on the cove, and doesn't have much support here either.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Can we plase stop with the drama? We've had enough of that with the TSIY and the Misfits lately.

    The LGPedia pages who were deleted, were pretty pointless anyway on the LGPedia. I understand why Amanda deleted them. They had nothing to do with one of the shows, they were investors. It's not that big of a deal to me to know who they are and I'm not very interested to read about them on the LGPedia. So I think it's a good thing the pages got deleted.

    I mean, come on. 73 comments on this is just crazy.

    ReplyDelete
  75. It appears the answer is no, pedia is not under attack. you should add that to the post.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Looking Over what I posted, I realized I really only needed to say this:

    I stress this, If there is something that you believe should be added or changed on a blocked page, PLEASE leave me a message on my Talk Page. Contributions to the Pedia are greatly appreciated and encouraged. We are not trying to create an invironment where people feel that they are being censored.

    ReplyDelete
  77. 1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, giving readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?

    - did not think it was needed. As you demonstrated all the information was public and available to anyone who was interested.

    - your list does not change the story.

    - these pages have all been on LGPedia for some time and all of a sudden they get deleted.

    ReplyDelete
  78. 6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?

    - as we have explained "Eqalpedia" which was the topic of this post ONLY refers to the real world locked pages. These are the pages that are being censored by Eqal, Inc. and the number of censored pages is what you should be using in your calculation if you want to be accurate.

    ReplyDelete
  79. sadly, with EQAL's death, the community has resorted to the constant behavior of "nag nag nagnagnagnagnagnagnagnag, BIIIITCH, BITCH, BIIITTCH...."

    ReplyDelete
  80. Anonymous said...
    "sadly, with EQAL's death, the community has resorted to the constant behavior of "nag nag nagnagnagnagnagnagnagnag, BIIIITCH, BITCH, BIIITTCH....""

    modelmotion isn't the community, and lol, EQAL seems to be doing just fine for themselves. you should have said "lonelygirl15's death" to be accurate, and she got the blood sucked out of her a long time ago.

    ReplyDelete
  81. LG15 TODAY said...
    "Over time many have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the "real world" content on LGPedia because in some cases employees go on to have their own successful projects and Eqal, Inc. appears to be afraid of the competition.

    - We stand by this statement and believe it to be factual. Ren we have no obligation to name names to you."

    Oh come on modelmotion. Corporations don't have information for ex employees on their websites, letting everyone know what they're doing now. What a load of hooey.

    ReplyDelete
  82. That was posted under the wrong account so it is corrected here:

    Over time many have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the "real world" content on LGPedia because in some cases employees go on to have their own successful projects and Eqal, Inc. appears to be afraid of the competition.

    - We stand by this statement and believe it to be factual. Ren we have no obligation to name names to you.

    ReplyDelete
  83. "We" I'd like to state that all authors/posters at LG15 do not necessarily agree with what "LG15Today" says.

    ReplyDelete
  84. why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack"

    - because the order for this censorship clearly came directly from Eqal, Inc. That makes it a continuation of their policy stated in the linked article.

    - this policy has directly contributed to the decline in the collaborative atmosphere that was once LGPedia. Eqal has taken what was once a great thing and turned it into their private playground with nothing but a feeble and unwarranted justification.

    - any changes that were needed could and would have been made thru the voluntary process that was once LGPedia. Instead Eqal has decided to impose censorship on the community.

    - it is their web site and legally they can do what they want. However actions do have repercussions and we have clearly seen the results of their misguided policy.

    ReplyDelete
  85. We call on Miles Beckett (CEO, Eqal, Inc.) to:

    1. Restore all the deleted pages.

    2. Remove all corporate censorship by Eqal, Inc. of LGPedia other than normal authoritative edits. This would involve unlocking all pages and allowing the admins to handle all "privacy issues".

    3. Allow LGPedia to function as it always has in the past as an almost purely voluntary, open and free wiki.

    4. Agree that Eqal, Inc will refrain from all future attempts to censor LGPedia in this manner.

    ReplyDelete
  86. VV we were signed in under the wrong account and that post has now been re-posted under the mm account where it was intended.

    ReplyDelete
  87. "We are not trying to create an invironment where people feel that they are being censored."

    - FH14, its is Eqal and not you that has "create an invironment where people feel that they are being censored." You have worked hard on LGPedia and you cannot be held responsible for actions you were clearly told to implement.

    Thanks for all your hard work on LGPedia but this issue goes way beyond you.

    ReplyDelete
  88. OK, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, here are my answers to Renegade's quiz. I hope I win something, and that ren stops posting them. Of course, I am not modelmotion, but you gotta start somewhere:

    1. If model knew the names of the pages deleted, why did he neglect to add them to the blog, in order to give readers a chance to assess the scope of the "damage" done?

    The names of the pages didn't matter to him. Book burning is still BOOK BURNING! (<< like that one? that's drama worthy, i think!)

    2. If model knew it was actually an LGPedia admin deleting things, why did he imply this to be a continuation of "the last attack", where pedia integrity was clearly violated by having BK delete things above the heads of pedia admins?

    Because Amanda kidnapped FH14 and forced these edits to be made at gunpoint!! Also, BK was cackling in the background dressed like The Gimp at the time. And you think that's BETTER?

    3. Why are the financial backers of the EQAL-created technology on the site important enough to be on the pedia, but not the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website, or even the actual coders of the website?

    Remember when articles used to nominated for deletion before they were deleted on the LGPedia? Wikipedia should try a similar model. If no one complains after a few days, off they go!

    Also "the financial backers or creators of the far more important non-EQAL technologies used on the website" all have boring lives.

    Also, the argument that the Lgpedia 's incompleteness means we should delete some of what IS on there is what led to the UGC category/deletion war.

    4. Who are the "many" users who supposedly "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the 'real world' content on LGPedia"?

    Excellent question! First, there not "many" users of the Lgpedia anymore, period. Also, some have seen it as a SHADOW attempt!

    5. What basis does model have to allege that the intention behind "EQAL's" locking and deleting of pages is to make sure competing entities are not mentioned on LGPedia?

    A leaked email from Amanda to Jessica Rose that said "Hooking Up sucks balls, you bitchquitter!"

    6. LGPedia currently has around 2,900 real content pages. Model said "a significant number of pages" had been deleted. The number of deleted pages are 12. That is 0.41%. How is less than a half percent of the pages "a significant number"?

    Renegade's posts probably equal 50 of this comment thread. Yet they are insignificant. Even Stephen Hawking can't explain that.

    7. If the information is already publically accessible on EQAL's page, i.e. no original pedia information was removed ("they simply mirrored information already available on Eqals own web site" - direct quote from model), what's the big deal?

    BURNING! BURNING! SAVE THE BOOKS! Save the archive of disturbingly private information about Annette Zajaczkowski readily available to people looking for pictures of Jackson Davis' abs!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  89. modelmotion said...
    "We call on Miles Beckett (CEO, Eqal, Inc.) to:..."

    lmao who the hell is "WE"?
    you suffering from multiple personality disorder modelmotion?

    ReplyDelete
  90. There are some that have accused me of creating drama on LG15 Today simply to promote the blogspot. That accusation is simply not true. In fact I do not enjoy the drama, and I believe that in the long run it actually hurts the blogspot because it tends to alienate some readers. Why do it then? Why did I make the post and the claims there in?

    Some times you just have to stand up and do what you believe to be right. I wrote what I believe is the truth and it was a truth that needed to be "spoken". It is that simple.

    I was one of the first contributors to LGPedia. I was one of the first two people with 1000 edits. I added Cassie. I created the locations section and I believe I also created the religion section. In the case of the former it met with intense resistance from the admins who marked all the pages on that topic I created for deletion. I objected and they gave me 12 days to demonstrate why it was an important section. I worked hard, learned how to create a template and built out the section with updates from each video. That was not enough to satisfy the admins who continued to threaten the pages with deletion. When they also started to mark pages in the religion section I simply threw in the towel and left (anyone remember the battles with Tannhaus?).

    As it happens what they meant by "deletion" in many cases was merely a better organized section and fortunately after I gave up other authors moved in and built out the sections which are now displayed on the main portal pages. Watching this happen restored my faith in the "pedia process." I therefore have a great deal of affinity with LGPedia and I simply hate what Eqal has chosen to do to it since they barely even contributed to its origins other than installing Media Wiki. Yes they own it. Yes they can do it. That does not make it right and I simply feel obligated to speak out against it.

    ReplyDelete
  91. notmm, I like your post. :) SAVE THE BOOKS!

    As for the people asking about the anonymous "we" MM mentions, count me in for it. I was always against censorship, on the comment boards, lgpedia and everywhere else. I got told it is EQAL's right to do what they want time and time again. In opposition to MM I'm just not brave enough to stick my neck out there and instead left LG15. But count me in on the "we" against any censorship!

    ReplyDelete
  92. Clearly, MM, the readers (at least those who comment) don't feel the same as you.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Anon,

    If you have to stand alone against something that you believe to be wrong and an abuse of power you do it. Censorship of LGPedia by Eqal, Inc. is one such issue. However, we do not believe that we stand alone and I also believe that the imposed censorship has been very harmful to both the community and to LGPedia.

    ReplyDelete
  94. modelmotion, why do you keep referring to yourself as "we"?

    creepy.

    ReplyDelete
  95. ...maybe its because of the multicore processor.

    ReplyDelete
  96. (With much love for all those complaining about the length of my posts.)

    @dream:
    "Wow, Renegade, your constant repetitions really made reading this annoying. I don't think you actually want your questions answered either, you just want to stamp your foot till people say you're right."
    That is not the issue. I believe the surrounding comments speak for themselves. The issue is that, if you read up to model's comments before, he like to redirect the topic and ignore the questions asked - in addition, there were several other "elements" trying to redirect the flow of conversation, making it necessary to repose those questions in order to make sure they would not get ignored indefinitely.

    I apologize if I annoyed you or anyone else reading along, but given that model finally at least pretended answer these questions, I do believe it was the most efficient course of action.

    As for your second (more recent) post: I have posed this question multiple times: Why should the investors behind EQAL be on the pedia in the first place, and can you prove these deletions were requested to remove specific information, e.g. regarding competing entities?
    iow: Do you have any evidence or other reasons to believe actual censorship happened here?
    Not every deletion is automatically censorship, no matter if it was discussed beforehand or not. I, personally, and apparently multiple others, see no reason why these pages should have been on the pedia in the first place. They were deleted by a pedia admin, and there is backing for the deletion. That does not sound like censorship to me.
    Has any of you crying "censorship" actually requested information about the reasoning from either FH14 or EQAL?
    Has anyone tried reinstating the page?

    Have any of you done anything, besides randomly crying "censorship!!!!111!!!oneeleven"?

    @the anonymous starting with "Renegade, you made"
    While I appreciate your agreement on the fact that model exaggerated the events, I do believe we have a different outlook on the situation. If somebody actually interprets my posts as "defensive", with my posts continuously including verified facts, and model's responses continuously ignoring the questions and trying to switch the topics, then he or she clearly is not capable of interpreting motivational or emotional stances behind posts in the first place.

    Besides, I do find the notion that model needs to be "motivated" to defend his posts ridiculous. If he had only a shred of journalistic integrity, he would gladly provide the sources and data for his "report" either up front, or at least on request. He has demonstrated that he has read the deletion logs, and admitted knowing the names of the pages deleted. Yet they were missing from his "report", and he opted to stay ambiguous and talk of a "significant number of pages" instead. I do believe it is quite obvious that model deliberately obscured the data.
    This is not a question of motivating him to answer these questions. This is a question of pointing out that he is not motivated to answer them in the first place.

    As for the TJ thing...let's just say I find it curious that he happens to show up right in this moment, that he happens to be surrounded by unregistered users promoting domains owned by him, or defending him, while posting either in the same minute as him, or between posts of his.
    Anyone who has been in the community for a certain amount of time is familiar with these "coincidences" surrounding him.

    @rexx:
    Not gonna happen. Ever. Check the copyright infringement post if you don't believe me.

    @FH14:
    Don't worry - as one of the anonymouses put it: "To anyone with 1/2 a brain, it's obvious that modelmotion has exaggerated things here. He's been told as much by others on the cove, and doesn't have much support here either."
    We know this is not on you, and we know there is no censorship.

    @notmm:
    I would be greatly amused if you started notlg15today.blogspot.com.
    Can I provide any sort of incentive to facilitate this?

    model:
    "- did not think it was needed. As you demonstrated all the information was public and available to anyone who was interested.
    So basically, your argumentation is "I was writing about deleted pages and how many of them there were, but did not think which pages or how many would be important"?
    Besides, this argumentation invalidates about half of all posts on LG15 Today - all these "Eye on [whatever]" posts which are just direct quotations of the pedia, all these direct quotes from Inside, everything - all of this is public information. If it wasn't important enough to mention, you could just leave a link to the respective pedia or inside page/post.
    And yet, you selectively choose to quote public information in those case, and chose not to quote it in this case.

    "- your list does not change the story."
    Yes, yes it does, in fact. Because it changes the story from "OMG OMG EQAL IS ATTACKING THE PEDIA AND REQUESTED A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PAGES TO BE DELETED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" to "EQAL requested that 12 pages about people no one cared for anyway who were of no significance to lonelygirl15 be removed.".
    If you don't realize the dramatic difference between those two versions, then I guess we have identified the reason for the recent increase in sensationalism under this domain.

    "- these pages have all been on LGPedia for some time and all of a sudden they get deleted."
    This is the only point so far that is partially valid, although it ignores the fact that especially if a page has existed for a long time and proves to be of no interest to anyone, it is a prime target for deletion. It would be a lot more interesting had somebody created these pages, and they had gotten deleted immediately.

    "- as we have explained "Eqalpedia" which was the topic of this post ONLY refers to the real world locked pages. These are the pages that are being censored by Eqal, Inc. and the number of censored pages is what you should be using in your calculation if you want to be accurate."
    I have already shown the flaw in this logic above; you have failed, so far, to provide any sort of evidence that any censorship happened, so I will take the sum of deleted pages as the basis for the following demonstration. That does not acknowledge that any censorship happens, it just shows that your "logic" is illogical either way:

    What you are saying is: A significant number of pages has been deleted. We are only talking about thedeleted pages about real world people. Therefore, you have to take that as the basis for your calculation.
    Or, in short: What you are saying is "a significant number of deleted pages have been deleted."

    Fine. I shall revise my calculations based on what you say I should do.
    I can now announce to the community that OMG ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF DELETED PAGES ABOUT REAL WORLD PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DELETED!!!!!!!1111oneleven.

    Seriously. That is your logic, right there. You are talking about a "significant number" of "censored" pages, and are telling us the basis for the claim "significant number" is not the overall number of pages, but only the "censored" pages. So yeah....of course a significant number of censored pages is censored. All censored pages are censored.

    As I said last time: Nice try. Wanna try again?

    (btw, for those who care: These pages actually haven't been locked. They could be recreated at any moment. So if this was actually censorship, it would be a rather bad execution of censorship. Not to mention that, if "Eqalpedia" refers to "the real world locked pages", then Eqalpedia doesn't even exist under model's definition.
    Reality is a bitch, isn't it?)

    "- We stand by this statement and believe it to be factual. Ren we have no obligation to name names to you."
    Actually, based on the widely accepted standard of "onus probandi" or "burden of proof", yes, yes you do. You are the one claiming these people exist, so you are the one who has to back that claim up.

    If you don't, then...well. I guess your invisible supporters are about as real as my army of deadly transformer unicorns.

    "- because the order for this censorship clearly came directly from Eqal, Inc. That makes it a continuation of their policy stated in the linked article."
    You are failing to acknowledge that a request is not an order.
    You are failing to acknowledge that you have shown no proof censorship is happening.
    You are failing to acknowledge that this situation was different than the previous one, in that the integrity of pedia administration was not breached as it was last time.
    Three significant problems in only two sentences. Speaks for itself.

    "- this policy has directly contributed to the decline in the collaborative atmosphere that was once LGPedia. Eqal has taken what was once a great thing and turned it into their private playground with nothing but a feeble and unwarranted justification."
    Bullshit. Just plain bullshit. pedia activity had declined long, long before the previous round of deletions. Anyone who needs proof of that can check the Balcony's editing history for example. You have not shown any proof that supports that the decline in pedia activity increased in any way after the previous deletions.
    In addition, the very fact that they did not delete themselves, but asked FH14 to, despite the fact that Amanda has admin rights, and they control the admin account disproves that they see the pedia as "their private playground". In fact, User:Admin hasn't edited since last November, and his only recent actions were promoting FH14 and Amanda, and Amanda has only done 2 edits this year so far, and done no administrative actions at all.

    If this is their private playground, they're not playing much.

    "- any changes that were needed could and would have been made thru the voluntary process that was once LGPedia. Instead Eqal has decided to impose censorship on the community."
    Once more, you are failing to prove censorship happened. There is no significant interest in these pages visible either here or on the pedia, and the subjects of the pages are only marginally related to LG15.
    On what grounds do you proclaim that the sole reason these pages existed wasn't that nobody cared for them in the first place?
    i.e. they weren't nominated for deletion simply because nobody looked at them, ever?

    I am not aware of the pedia having a "does anybody give a shit about this page?" patrol. And I would think if there was such a massive support for the inclusion of these pages as you would like to have us think, there would be more than you and two or three semi-anonymous commenters crying. In fact, no one but you even voiced support for the inclusion of these pages. The few other commenters who marginally voiced concerns about censorship only voiced concerns about censorship - they did not say "yes, we want these particular pages on the pedia".

    To put it bluntly: Nobody gives a shit for these pages. Hell, let's be honest: Had you gone on the pedia and made a case for the inclusion of them based on the fact that "this is a pedia about lonelygirl15, and EQAL is the company behind lonelygirl15, and these people sometime in the past threw money at EQAL, therefore they have to have a pedia page!", very most likely, you would have been shot down. If anything, there would have been the compromise of creating an "Investors" page, listing all of them, and only to shut you up.

    Nobody wants to read about the investors of EQAL, and the handful of people who do will do so on the official information page of EQAL, Inc, not on an encyclopedia on a totally different topic vulnerable to any maniac with an internet connection.
    Seriously.
    You are suggesting that people would be interested in getting business information from a page that could talk about a love for fish tacos and gay sex at any given point in time. (And those who have been here for a while know I'm not even making this up.) That's just not holding up.

    "- it is their web site and legally they can do what they want. However actions do have repercussions and we have clearly seen the results of their misguided policy."
    O rly? Can I see, too? 'cause I have seen nothing. No one missing these or last time's pages, no burning cars, no angry mob, nothing.
    And just out of curiosity: If actions have repercussions - what are the repercussions for continuously fabricating scandals and misleading the community?

    "We call on Miles Beckett (CEO, Eqal, Inc.) to: [...]"
    Please clarify for who you speak, that is, who is "we", as it makes a significant difference if you just speak for your own, for three people, or for hundreds, and please provide proof that any censorship happened in the first place.

    In addition I would like to directly and unmistakably state that I am not part of "we", and do not call upon Miles Beckett for anything other than the return of The Resistance.

    "There are some that have accused me of creating drama on LG15 Today simply to promote the blogspot. That accusation is simply not true. [...]"
    model, there is only one response to that: If you are not consciously continuously spinning the facts, misreporting, refusing to back up your claims or allowing flat-out lies to be posted, than you must simply be incompetent and unfit to run a news source.
    It's as simple as that.
    If you see yourself as an independent journalist, then you should adhere to basics of journalistic ethics, which include, but are not limited to, revealing all facts, not distorting the truth, and backing up your claims when asked.
    If you do not see yourself as an independent journalist, and do not plan on valuing journalistic standards, then you should say that, once and for all, in clear terms, so all future readers know they are not reading news, but modelmotion's personal opinion on recent happenings.

    I will, of course, randomly pop in and post the actual facts behind your posts, but if you openly admit you're not reporting news, but posting opinions, then it would look a little less shady when you randomly invent scandals. After all, you wouldn't be claiming to tell the truth in the first place, so who could hold you accountable for not telling it?

    So, your choice - do you want us to consider yourself a news reporter, or do you want us to consider yourself a news commentator?



    As for the entire heartbreaking "I was one of the first contributors boohoo" story: Click this link.

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  97. Personally I blame all of Eqal's woes on the new Taylor Swift album...

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  98. I think Obama needs to initiate a 'Pedia Stimulus Plan.

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  99. "As for your second (more recent) post: I have posed this question multiple times: Why should the investors behind EQAL be on the pedia in the first place, and can you prove these deletions were requested to remove specific information, e.g. regarding competing entities?"

    - we did not claim that these specific pages were an attempt to prevent links to competitors.

    - just try adding a new project to Jessica Lee Rose on LGPedia or many of the other real world characters. You can't. Why not? Because Eqal has locked the pages. They are actively preventing us do what we have always done on LGPedia. That is just systematic censorship.

    - fans built this pedia and fans should continue to run and control it.

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  100. "As for your second (more recent) post: I have posed this question multiple times: Why should the investors behind EQAL be on the pedia in the first place

    - the point is that this information has been on the pedia for some time without any objection from Eqal. There is a process for removing information or commenting about it. Why now? Why does Eqal feel a need to dictate to us what we can and cannot do on LGPedia. It has always been responsibly run by fans with very little help from the c and it would probably be better off if it stayed that way.

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  101. "- your list does not change the story."
    Yes, yes it does, in fact. Because it changes the story from "OMG OMG EQAL IS ATTACKING THE PEDIA"

    - the story includes a link to the previous article and is talking about on going and systematic censorship of LGPedia by Eqal, Inc.

    - the deletion of several pages just initiated a follow up story on the censorship that was probably long over due.

    - the point here is that there is no substantial reason to have locked pages on LGPedia. Everything that Eqal really needs to achieve in terms of privacy could and should in our opinion be achieved on open pages on a fully voluntary basis. There is absolutely no reason this could not happen and it would be consistent with the normal working of a pedia.

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  102. "This is the only point so far that is partially valid, although it ignores the fact that especially if a page has existed for a long time and proves to be of no interest to anyone, it is a prime target for deletion."

    - I believe that fans did a significant amount of work on the Marc Andreessen page.

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  103. Just playing the devil's advocate card here, but considering the vast decline in fan contributors and editors to the pedia, perhaps that's why the creators felt the need to start exhibiting some assistance in maintaining it. Also, as we don't know all the behind the scenes with the particular pages currently in question, maybe the other occupations of the investors don't want them associated with Eqal currently. I can see where they would circumvent previous processes for removal of information when there is not enough interest to generate conversation. Just my thoughts... also the dead horse... still dead and tired of being beaten.

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  104. If we reach 436 comments, this nightmare will go away. Come on people. "Yes we can"

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  105. Ren, you fail to grasp the big picture here. This is all about the systematic policy of locking all the real world pages. That prevents fans from adding links to new projects. Eqal, Inc. is actively preventing us from adding such information and it is certainly not a privacy issue as they claim. That is simply just a smoke screen they used to hide their agenda of turning these pages into pure Eqal, Inc propaganda. That is censorship pure and simple.

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  106. No modelmotion, you're failing to grasp that this is the LGpedia.

    Any new projects PAST participants in the show have should be on their WIKI page. New projects not related to LG15 have no place on the LGpedia!

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  107. That was never a standard used on the bio pages on LGPedia by fans. That is a standard that is being dictated by Eqal, Inc.

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  108. modelmotion said...
    "That was never a standard used on the bio pages on LGPedia by fans. That is a standard that is being dictated by Eqal, Inc."


    modelmotion, that's the standard used by any corporation. Why should EQAL be held to any other standard?

    When employees leave, a company does not keep information about ex-employees on their website, and especially doesn't routinely update it letting people know what their ex-employee is doing now. They also do not put investor information on, for example, product (content) pages. The pages that were removed were irrelevant to LG15. The information belongs on the EQAL site.

    I'm lost now. Your original argument was about EQAL deleting pages of info about people who had absolutely nothing to do with LG15, and then you've gone and made this about people who have left LG15/EQAL and the fact that their pages aren't updatable.

    Which is it?

    To suggest that the LGpedia be used as a publicity tool for ex-employees is pretty ridiculous. That's what wiki pages and imdb pages are for.

    Way up there ^^^ you typed:
    "Over time many have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the "real world" content on LGPedia because in some cases employees go on to have their own successful projects and Eqal, Inc. appears to be afraid of the competition.
    That is the real issue here."

    WTF? Honestly modelmotion, I don't think even YOU know what you're up in arms against.

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  109. It is believed by many that the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act was the main cause of the great depression.
    It was enacted and signed into law under Herbert Hoover, a Republican President in 1930. Wordwide Retaliation began long before this tariff was signed in to Law.

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  110. "Over time many have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the "real world" content on LGPedia because in some cases employees go on to have their own successful projects and Eqal, Inc. appears to be afraid of the competition."

    - you either have a wiki that people are free to edit or what you have is pure corporate Eqal, Inc propaganda on Eqalpedia. Eqal has its on site where they can post that. LGPedia was created by fans for fans and if you want to have a social media company you might be well advised to actually listen to your fans.

    - and yes the parallel to Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act is not without warrant. Sometimes when you over use your power to control things it results in unexpected consequences.

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  111. Herbert Hoover was a Republican President elected in 1928. While Republicans are supposed to stand for small government and as follows from this..Low government expenditure of capital... Herbert Hoover engaged in spending which dwarfed the spending of any and all presidents proceeding his term. This representative of the party of small government grew the government faster than ANYONE ever had in the history of the United States. He also engaged in one of the greatest acts to ever hobble the free market, the cornerstone of capitalism. Hoover helped to pass without Veto,and with much support, the Smoot-Hawley Tarrif which resulted in worldwide retaliation that started and likely prolonged the Great Depression to a length of TWICE that of the next longest depression in US history. It spanned 5 years while the next longest depression in U.S. history was the Panic of 1893, which lasted about 5 years.
    It should be noted that while certain prominent historians credit FDR with leading us out of the Great Depression, their is much evidence that Roosevelt's punitive policies towards business were the true cause of the Great Depression lasting so much longer than other Depressions.
    With the start of WWII FDR had a need for businessmen to assist him with the products he needed to fight the war and many of his highly punative policies were rescinded or overlooked. Additionally, he finally supported the removal of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1940 which also greatly contributed to the gradual acceptance once again of products made in the United States of American by countries worldwide.

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  112. Protectionism has never worked and that will be no less true in the information age. LGPedia was once a fun place to do research and contribute. Now we are locked out. Not exactly what I would call social media.

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  113. "- we did not claim that these specific pages were an attempt to prevent links to competitors."
    Yeah...you only implied and insinuated it, claiming your invisible shadow supporters think that way: "Over time many have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the "real world" content on LGPedia because in some cases employees go on to have their own successful projects and Eqal, Inc. appears to be afraid of the competition."
    So...wanna reveal who your invisible shadow supporters are, or are they still playing with my unicorns, while Bigfoot and the Yeti watch?

    "- just try adding a new project to Jessica Lee Rose on LGPedia or many of the other real world characters. You can't. Why not? Because Eqal has locked the pages. They are actively preventing us do what we have always done on LGPedia. That is just systematic censorship."
    Is it? Explain how. In detail, please, especially under consideration of the following points:
    * The reason given for the locking on the site was protection of her information; on what grounds are you claiming the reason given is a lie, and do you have evidence to support this?
    * You claim systematic censorship. Please back that up by a) proving censorship on the pedia exists in the first place, and b) showing up the system, in detail, with supporting evidence.
    * Please provide supporting evidence that updating all departed employees with all information for everything they have done after leaving an LG15-related project has always been done on LGPedia.
    * Please explain who the shadowy "we" are who supposedly have always done "that".

    "- fans built this pedia and fans should continue to run and control it."
    This is a purely moral point of view based on a certain sense of entitlement, nothing more. Independent of my personal point of view, anyone disagreeing could just as much argue that, by the number of active editors, the lack of administrators, etc. it is rather obvious that the fans have also abandoned the pedia.
    If we were talking about the pedia of one or two years ago, this point would have merit. But given that practically no one but FH14 and Kevin is editing the pedia anymore, it's just unrealistic and utopian.
    What are you proposing?
    That the Creators are never, ever allowed to touch the pedia, even after the last two guys packed their bags and moved on? That the pedia has to stay in the state the last fan has left it, because the moral of the model says the Creators must never run and control the pedia?

    This position is your personal opinion, nothing more. If you want to provide facts to argue why your opinion should become standing operating procedure for the pedia and an indefinite barring of the Cs from it, fine, go ahead.
    But randomly saying that's the way it ought to be, with no explanation and no reasoning, against reality, probability, and just plain feasibility is just worthless.
    It's a randomly voiced opinion, nothing more. If you want it to have any significance at all, you should go ahead and explain why your opinion is better than that of EQAL, or anyone else's.

    "- the point is that this information has been on the pedia for some time without any objection from Eqal. There is a process for removing information or commenting about it. Why now? Why does Eqal feel a need to dictate to us what we can and cannot do on LGPedia. It has always been responsibly run by fans with very little help from the c and it would probably be better off if it stayed that way."
    Simple answer to this one: Prove that EQAL was aware of these pages.
    On what grounds are you claiming that they haven't only found out about them last week, and requested their deletion asap?

    In addition, I can only reiterate what I said before: A page that has existed for a long time with no one showing any interest in it is much more delete-worthy than one that has only existed for a short period of time. Simply because it is already proven, by test of time, that nobody gives a shit.
    Again, what are you proposing?
    That the pedia makes it a policy to only delete young pages, and no page over a certain age must not be touched, no matter if anyone cares for it?
    The age of the page is entirely irrelevant to the issue. If anything, it supports the deletion, because it was long overdue.

    "- the story includes a link to the previous article and is talking about on going and systematic censorship of LGPedia by Eqal, Inc."
    You have yet to provide any evidence that supports censorship is happening in the first place, let alone systematic censorship.
    Irrelevant pages about unrelated people were deleted. That is a simple clean-up task that has been done numerous times before - the only thing out of the ordinary is that it was requested, and not flagged by the community. Given that only about two guys are still editing the pedia, and those are working on the n1ckola and The Last stuff, this is unsurprising - who's supposed to patrol the pages?

    Oh, wait, I know - how about your invisible shadow supporters? I mean, if there are so many of them, I'm sure you can spare one or two as pedia slaves...just drop them off on the main page and I'm sure FH14 will take it from there. How about that?

    "- the deletion of several pages just initiated a follow up story on the censorship that was probably long over due."
    Last time: EQAL commands BK to go in and lock the pages of current employees of EQAL or people related to the production.
    This time: EQAL requests that FH14 deletes some pages of random people no one has ever heard of who mostly don't even work for EQAL and have nothing to do with the production.
    Hmm...let's see: Employees & actors vs. unrelated outside people. Relevant pages vs. irrelevant pages. Command vs. request. Outside admin vs. pedia admin. Locking vs. deletion.
    I can totally see how this is the exact same thing!!!! (That was sarcasm, in case you didn't notice.)

    "- the point here is that there is no substantial reason to have locked pages on LGPedia. Everything that Eqal really needs to achieve in terms of privacy could and should in our opinion be achieved on open pages on a fully voluntary basis. There is absolutely no reason this could not happen and it would be consistent with the normal working of a pedia."
    Multiple problems with this one:
    * Gross over-generalization. There are several substantial reasons to have locked pages on LGPedia, including, but not limited to, protection from vandalism, general security, template consistency and as a measure during editing wars. You can't liken all lockings.
    * Just to point this out in my textually big voice, since you're apparently still trying to sway readers in a dishonest way: These recently deleted pages have not been locked. Stop trying to liken deletion to locking. They're different things.
    * I would still like to know who the shadow "we" of LG15 Today is. 'cause, you know, I care for my transformer unicorns, and I don't want them to hang out with creeps and weirdos.
    * The whole "everything that Eqal really needs to achieve in terms of privacy could and should in our opinion be achieved on open pages on a fully voluntary basis" is bullshit on several levels:
    1. How could it be open, and restricted at the same time? If anybody has the right to add anything, all information will, ultimately, end up on the pedia. What's the result of that? Let's pull out a random, actual edit summary: "Removed content this user does not want included.". You can't honestly think that you can, on one hand, allow all users to add anything to the page, and yet, magically, on the other hand no one will add something that person does not want to see online.
    And we're not talking about shady business connections or censorship of competition here. We're talking about stuff as simple as private myspaces or facebook accounts. Not everyone wants the lg15 mob snooping around in their non-lg15 life.
    2. That leads us to the second problem. What do you think is more discreet and fulfills the "victim's" wishes:
    "Err, they put my private data up...could you fix that, please?" "sure *click*"
    or
    "Err, they put my private data up...could you fix that, please?" "PLEASE LET US ALL DISCUSS THE INCLUSION OF GREG'S PROFILE ON SEXTOYSHOP.COM ON HIS PEDIA PAGE! Come to the talk page now, gather round, gather round, the more the merrier! What do you think of it? Look at this, is this pedia relevant, what do you say?"
    The point is that this is private data, and is wanted to be kept out of sight - not put on a podium and judged by the entire community. Having everyone look at it to discuss if it should stay up negates the point of having it taken down before everyone looked at it.
    And 3. What if the answer is no?
    "Err, they put my private data up...could you fix that, please?"
    "Hmm...let me ask the guys................sorry, we voted, and the answer is NO. Your private data stays up. Nice dildo you bought, btw."
    "..."
    ?? Seriously, how the hell do you imagine this to work? If a person wants their private data taken out of the pedia, that's a valid request - there's no reason and no justification to discuss it first. Imagine I posted Casey Klebba's full home address on his pedia page? On what grounds do you demand that he jumps through hoops and waits for the outcome of a pedia discussion, which, as we know (especially when I'm involved) could take weeks to come to a conclusion?
    Locking those pages is the most sane and efficient solution to ensure no unwanted private data randomly appears on the internet, ready for Google to index it eternally.

    And hell, have you, for even a single second, thought about the aftermath of such a decision? Imagine you make the process open, everyone adds everything, we vote and say "go fuck yourself EQAL, everything stays up!" - do you honestly think EQAL would just ignore that we just pissed off the entire company, from investors, over secretaries, to camera men, up to the CEO?
    The pedia would be shut down quicker than you can say "rm -rf ./lgpedia".

    I'm curious...did you even think once about the feasibility of anything of what you say? Or are you just randomly yelling propaganda, no matter if it makes sense?

    "- I believe that fans did a significant amount of work on the Marc Andreessen page."
    Curiously, Marc Andreessen was among the people I randomly suggested for people who would need a pedia page, by your illogical investor-inclusion reasoning.

    Why did I suggest him, and why was his pedia page longer than the few copy-pasted lines the others had?

    Simple. Marc Andreessen is not just a random investor, but an internet pioneer who created the first graphical browser for the World Wide Web.
    His pedia page wasn't extended with any additional lg15-related data, they simply added biographic data from other sources. And I would bet money on it the sole reason they did that was because he was the only one they could find something on.
    Why did they find something? Because he's independently important and famous. Not because he is of any additional significance as an investor, or anyone cared for his investing.

    Let me make this clear, once more: The Marc Andreessen page did not include additional information of his relation to LG15 or EQAL. It included additional biographical data irrelevant to the series or the company.

    "Ren, you fail to grasp the big picture here. This is all about the systematic policy of locking all the real world pages. That prevents fans from adding links to new projects. Eqal, Inc. is actively preventing us from adding such information and it is certainly not a privacy issue as they claim. That is simply just a smoke screen they used to hide their agenda of turning these pages into pure Eqal, Inc propaganda. That is censorship pure and simple."
    The reason I "fail to grasp the big picture" is simple: The big picture exists only in your head.
    I have said it before, and I have said it again: The pages in question this time have not been locked. The entire premise of your conspiracy theory is already flawed. And the whole "we can't include new projects, this is censorship!" angle has already been debunked by multiple people before me - why should we?
    According to Steve Jobs's biography on Wikipedia, he originally worked as a technician for Atari.
    ...do you honestly think Atari has an ongoing personal file on him, updating it with his various jobs and positions at Apple, NeXT, Pixar and Disney?
    And, again - what are you basing your claims on? On what grounds do you claim "it is certainly not a privacy issue as they claim"? Do you have any proof at all to support that?

    "- you either have a wiki that people are free to edit or what you have is pure corporate Eqal, Inc propaganda on Eqalpedia. Eqal has its on site where they can post that. LGPedia was created by fans for fans and if you want to have a social media company you might be well advised to actually listen to your fans."
    Ah, the pure black & white rhetoric of any true extremist.
    Of course, it's absolute bullshit, as the current state of the pedia very well proves - the pages of real world people are protected by those who'd get sued if something libelous was on them, and the rest is anarchy (almost).
    Point is, the whole "IT CAN ONLY BE ONE OR THE OTHER!!!! YOU'RE EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US!! DEATH THE OPPRESSORS!!" rhetoric is totally over the top and simply factually wrong. It is possible to run a compromise, and especially because EQAL has certain responsibilities about what is being written by us, it's important to make sure they don't get in trouble for what we write.

    And the fact of the matter is: Again, you are not thinking ahead.
    Let's say we follow your plan. Let's say we grant total freedom and EQAL does not get involved.
    Then I'm free to go up there and sneak in an edit that says Jessica Rose now works as a part-time prostitute in a Hooters in Idaho.
    She sees that, sues the shit out of EQAL for libel, EQAL loses all credibility, contracts get cancelled, money is lost, the site gets shut down, no more series, no more pedia, no more fans.
    Had EQAL been allowed by His Modelness to intervene and correct the data, all of this wouldn't have happened. This way, they were aiding and abetting libel, and wholly responsible. Way to destroy the community just because you couldn't accept that people want their private stuff to stay private, model.


    Lockings have happened on LGPedia and any other wiki since MediaWiki was first put into use on the internet.
    Deletions have happened on LGPedia and any other wiki since MediaWiki was first put into use on the internet.
    Wanting personal data removed from LGPedia is a reasonable request.
    Not wanting any random maniac to be able to change whatever he wants on your personal profile is a reasonable request.
    Not updating profile pages with data entirely and absolutely unrelated to LG15 is logical, and, in fact, the inverse would be reason enough for a flagging for cleanup.

    There is no conspiracy. There is no attack. There is no censorship.

    If you have evidence proving the opposite, feel free to present it. So far, all you have are invisible, inaudible, unnoticeable supporters that you assure us do actually exist.


    As a final note to everyone else: What strikes me as odd is that it happens to be model who is out to make sure that the employees of EQAL have no right to privacy at all. model, who has made it a point to have one of the most well-concealed personas in the community, and who is probably the only person in the community of which few or no people know more than his nickname.

    Why is a man (or woman? I wouldn't know.) so hellbent on protecting his own privacy so obsessed with destroying the only barrier of privacy the employees of EQAL have? Why do the employees of EQAL have less right to privacy than model? Why are they allowed to be hunted down and have their private data posted all over the internet ('cause you know model will be the first one to quote the entire page in a random "Eye on..." post), while model won't even give up his first name, gender, or age?

    Why does model insist on granting the employees of EQAL less rights than he wants for himself?

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  114. "Over time many have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt to control the "real world" content on LGPedia because in some cases employees go on to have their own successful projects and Eqal, Inc. appears to be afraid of the competition."

    - we stand by that statement

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  115. One of the factors that has led to a decrease in the number of people who feel motivated to edit on LGPedia is that people can no longer do research and contribute to it because the pages are locked.

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  116. If information is on the internet it is inherently public. I think people are generally sensitive to privacy issues when they post on a pedia and the admins are always there as a back up. Everyone was sensitive to BK when someone tried to disclose information that he clearly did not want public. Ren, how exactly do you think Wikipedia works? How is LGPedia any different other than the fact it is about LG15 and it resides on a private web site. LGPedia has survived for how many years without any problems? I think the admins of LGPedia are to be commended for what they have achieved in the past few years in terms of balancing privacy against the need to have information about those who have voluntarily chosen to make themselves part of an internet series. There was no problem until Eqal, Inc. created one because the admins have always been sensitive to this issue. Where do you think most of the information on LGPedia come from. I am pretty sure that almost everyone covered was aware of what was on LGPedia and we heard no complaints until Eqal, Inc. decided to make it an issue. How do you explain that?

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  117. Just a thought: MM himself said that the EQAL-related pages were a part of what was informally known as the EQALpedia. EQAL wants the LGpedia to be LG15-universe related, not EQAL-related, so the removal of the EQALpedia content makes sense to me.

    Also, some of the people (such as Tyler) requested their page be deleted, since he is not a part of the LG15 universe. Former actors/staff have as well, but EQAL locked those pages instead. And there's always the means to update those pages. Before FH14 was an admin, he'd ask me to update those pages.

    Instead of this kind of story, a better one would be to profile FH14 and Kevin, two tireless and commendable 'pedia workers who are doing a great job with N1kola and The Last, etc.

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  118. Well that comment clears things up a bit Broken Kid.

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  119. Can you in future Broken Kid give the reasoning behind such actions when they are asked in a attempt to avoid this drama fest?

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  120. When I know the reasoning, I'd be happy to. :)

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  121. A man once said...."Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    Now Benjamin Franklin wasn't noted for being that bright of a man...but he recognized that allowing liberty to be eroded in order to feel safe would lead not only to a reduction in Freedom but to a greater threat to safety from the state itself.
    There is a lack of interest overall in this whole series. Oh sure there might have been a recent small spike but in general nobody gives a crap. "OUR" participation has been greatly curbed by the change from the Phorum 2.0 to the...Mile's comment board Social Network.. How's that comin by the way? When's that site gonna fully launch? Then we have this restriction to the LGpedia along with the usual and inevitable appearance of the Wiki "Order" fanatics. The greatest innovation and creativity usually occurs when there are no restrictions and oversight. Start adding a lot of anally retentive people and pages start getting deleted..could be something of little import..that was only partially started..but that short little page is a potential HOOK for a new Editor..People stumble on a partial page and think..WOW..I can fix this up..and get the Edit bug.. but These never last for long..the format freaks being organizers by nature are inherently more organized and take over a wiki and tend to push out the creatives. What you end up with is..a rather boring restricted information site that nobody really uses because nobody really participates in it.
    How's that working out for you guys?

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  122. BK said "Instead of this kind of story, a better one would be to profile FH14 and Kevin, two tireless and commendable 'pedia workers who are doing a great job with N1kola and The Last, etc."

    So since you think its such a good story...we will be anxiously awaiting your publication of it here.

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  123. BY the way which actors requested their pages be deleted? ARE YOU FUCKIN KIDDIN ME? What actor asks to be removed from ANY information site? That would be the actors eventually asking if you want Cream or Sugar...Cafe or Decafe..etc.

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  124. I like big butts and I can not lie....

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  125. Masturbation is safe...but a whole hell of a lot less fun...PUT DOWN THAT candlestick!

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  126. While at times... okay most of the time he could really use a good editor to shorten his points, I enjoy and tend to agree strongly with what Renegade writes. These comments are such a case.

    Modelmotions refusal to answer simple questions is very telling to his character.

    What struck me most honestly was Renegade's last comment talking about how Modelmotion keeps their information, even to the point of not sharing their first name a secret. Really? Wow. If they can't even share that after all this time, their words should have no more value than us terrible anonymous posters. They are after all in the grand sense, as faceless as we are.

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  127. "- we stand by that statement"
    So back it up or admit you can't.

    "One of the factors that has led to a decrease in the number of people who feel motivated to edit on LGPedia is that people can no longer do research and contribute to it because the pages are locked."
    Back it up or admit you can't.

    "If information is on the internet [...] How do you explain that?"
    Explain what? You're the only I can see right now even seeing an issue! And even if you weren't, you still haven't proven there is any causation between EQAL's previous actions and a decline in editing. Besides, if you honestly think the pedia has existed "without problems", you can't have been there too often.

    Anyway, this is just empty rhetoric trying to divert from the real issue - which is that you ignored the large majority of my post(s), and still didn't answer dozens of questions posed, including the one about whether we're supposed to see you as a news reporter or commenter. Sorry model - you'll have to try better than that.

    I won't do it right now, but rest assured, if you fall back into that, I will start repeating the question set in every question again.

    The questions don't go away just because you ignore them.


    As for the way I think Wikipedia works, let me quote directly:
    "Although it is your own responsibility, you are advised not to list personal details such as contact information on your user space, or to discuss them over the various contact channels, including IRC.

    If you have in the past posted contact information anywhere and you wish it deleted, you can contact any administrator to delete the information, which will hide it from everybody except other admins. Alternatively, you can contact the people at Request for Oversight, who can hide it from everybody, including administrators (and themselves)."


    Emphasis added. I believe the word "pwned" is adequate here. :P

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  128. Ben Franklin actually was noted for being a bright man, in fact, he was widely regarded throughout both the Colonies and Europe as one of the smartest men of his day.

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  129. Math...
    I thought the facetiousness of My statement regarding "Uncle" Ben was patently obvious to anyone with a modicum of knowledge regarding US history...the list of his scientific,literary and societal accomplishments is hard to match..
    Plus he's on the hundred dollar bill so that right there puts him at the top of my list..

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  130. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  131. Ren maybe if you didnt intentionally engage in the WALLOFTEXT method or argument somebody might not fall asleep before you actually asked their question.. For those that dont know...Here is an outtake from WWW.WallofText.net that gives great illustration to Ren's methods..unfortunately the cut and paste left out the diagrams and charts but those can be found by going to the site...
    While also at times subscribing to the wallOtext method..I frankly am a rank amateur..more to follow the paste from WallOFText.Net
    -----------------------------------
    God Cheats at Cards Friday, September 19, 2008
    It's been nearly two weeks. I guess I can splurge for your guys' sakes and post a little early this time. What good is a wall if it's not regularly built, right?

    I'm thinking of doing this one in no particular order again. If you have a problem with that, feel free to shove it up your leave a comment.

    The first thing that comes to mind, is Fringe, a new show on Fox that conveniently conflicts with Eureka. Eureka is ending next week, though, so that won't be an issue. It's basically a newer version of the X Files only with more "science" and less aliens. I don't have any issue suspending my disbelief, but I cannot abide plot holes. Way back when, these scientists set out to make genetic alterations to the pituitary gland in the brain so that they could generate babies that would grow up to be biologically 21 years of age in three years. They succeeded, but they couldn't find a way to slow the growth down afterward, and the subjects would die of "natural causes" very quickly. The show starts out with a guy and a hooker, and the hooker starts screaming when she sees a lump moving around her belly and getting larger by the second. The guy drops her off at the hospital, and by then she looks 10 months pregnant. She dies. They make an incision to do a c-section, and out pops something and cut for commercials. When they come back to the scene, an old man, naked and covered in blood with the umbilical cord still attached is lying on the floor, dead from old age. It turns out that the guy who dropped her off at the hospital was one of the babies born in the science experiments, whose "father" had figured out a way to use the chemicals generated from other people's pituitary glands to slow the aging, and he had lured the hooker in order to get her gland from her. But first, why not sleep with her, you know? The condom failed, she was impregnated and the rest makes sense. Except the part where the baby was supposed to be 21 in 3 years, not three minutes. And shouldn't he have died of starvation much quicker than old age, having never eaten but still trying to grow an adult's body (this one I find more excusable in that for this to work, they'd have to get around this in the science experiment in the first place)? Oh, and that a single cell doesn't have a pituitary gland, and so until the brain was formed, the genetics shouldn't have any growth effect on the baby. It's just bad writing. But other than that, it's a decent show. I mean, hookers, crazy old scientists, and cynical remarks -- who could ask for more?

    I can't say I'm surprised, but I am annoyed, at the number of people making a stink about the Facebook layout. I'll admit I was disappointed when they opened it up to people outside of college, and when they got rid of their algorithm for finding the shortest chain of friends between you and someone else. I was also disappointed a bit after they introduced applications, mostly because as t approaches infinity, facebook(t) approaches myspace. The layout, however, I like a little bit more. As far as I can tell there's very little information in the old layout that isn't in the new layout. The only thing, really, is that apps are on a separate tab called "Boxes" rather than on your main page, forcing your scroll bar to two pixels' height. The ads are better placed and less obtrusive. The pictures tab is mostly nice -- I've noticed a couple bugs with pressing the back button, after clicking on a picture a few "pages" in. In general, it just feels cleaner to me. I think people just dislike change, for the better or the worse, unless they're getting something significant out of it, like health care or tax cuts.

    I was watching an Authors@Google video on youtube the other day, at the recommendation of my pastor. The book is called The Reason for God by Timothy Keller, and apparently the presentation had the highest turnout that any of the people there had seen (tied with a woman who did a sex-talk). You really should watch the video, but his argument is that, logically, it takes more faith to think that God doesn't exist, than that God does. There are still personal issues to deal with after that, but that no one has an intellectual excuse on the premise of faithlessness. Of course, that very thing was pointed out in Romans 1:20, but people tend to discredit the Bible, and I'll admit that Romans 1:20 made casual mention of it, a high-level view with glossed-over details. I don't know if I'll get the book, I probably will -- I'm sure my pastor would loan it to me, but I am the worst at getting borrowed books back to people -- but the talk was certainly worth watching. The thing is, I don't really need intellectual convincing. That's my reason for maybe not getting the book.

    I have the Facebook app on my iPhone, and was perusing the status updates tonight. There was one that said, "[Name] says maybe if Microsoft spent more time making their products better and less time trying to sell them they'd sell better..." I've only worked at Microsoft for two months, but I'm already sick of comments like these. Everyone knows they're the big name in software, and so it's easy to hate them. In the two months I've been working, I've read a decent amount of source code, and I have to say, the vast majority of it is written extremely well. The programmers there use best practices, use clarity, keep things as simple as possible, and yet keep the uses of the software as open-ended as can be expected. Every now and then I wish such-and-such feature in a program (OS X included) would be more extendable, would offer more options visible, and so on. Then I realize that what I want is a programming language. We want a program to do it all for us, and in my case, I want to control how it does it with plenty of options. But that's what programming languages do. They let us express exactly what we want to have happen. Unfortunately, the average user doesn't program. I don't really know where I'm going with this. I just take it personally when someone says that MS software is bad when a lot of the best minds in the world put so much work into making a program. , I started to respond to his status update on his wall to point out how common it is for developers to quit developing a feature in the middle of a project in order to shift their career into the marketing side of Microsoft. Then I thought better of it.

    The Microsoft Company meeting was today. I think it had higher attendance than do Mariners games these days (which is relevant because the meeting is held in Safeco Field). It was certainly an experience. Different people got on stage and talked for a while, all excited about their products and such, giving demos. Any time a product was mentioned, the group developing it cheered. I always thought it was silly when I saw them do it on TV, then found myself doing it when SQL Server was mentioned. We really do write amazing software. They say that a lot of people join Microsoft because they realize that our software is shipped world-wide, and that they can make a difference in the world by working there. That's not why I joined Microsoft at all. I don't find my identity in work. I don't see my mark on the world through software. It's not personal enough for me. I find my identity in Jesus and my relationship to him. I see my mark on the world being the people I know on a personal level, or really, even more basic than that, the things I do because I know they're right and they're what God wants me to do. I don't even feel like I need to mark the world. So, with that in mind, I really don't care if people use my software. I very much care if they use our software, but if what I write isn't ever used, I enjoyed writing it all the same. If someone (my manager, a customer, a professor, whoever) asks me to write something and I succeed, that's where the high is. I aspire to be a computer scientist, not a programmer. I enjoy the thought and the journey, and if results result, that's awesome. Of course, that said, I care very much what the customer thinks about the end user experience, about the project as a whole, and would gladly take comments into consideration and give them to the people who can make a difference. I just don't care if the relatively small number of features I write changes the world. I get the feeling that I'm not capable of writing clearly enough to get out my feelings. I'll put it this way: Feeling.ToString() was never implemented.

    Obviously, we want people to start using Live Search over Google, and Google has the majority market share for search. I was thinking about an xkcd comic today, one that's always resonated with me.

    The Difference

    I google'd scientist xkcd.com. Two results came up, the first being the one above. The second was this:

    Beliefs

    The first one was the one I was searching for. The second one I hadn't clicked until writing this, and I assumed it was a different one, which Live.com put up first:

    Scientists

    The point of this all, is that live came up with a comic called "Scientists" first, and the one I was looking for second. It came up with the logical, and in many ways the "right" answer first. Google came up with the one I wanted, and one that has little to do with my query, little more than the rest of the xkcd comics do, and didn't come up with the one titled "Scientists." Which search is better? Which search is right? (Ironically, neither search engine came up with google's number two comic for senator xkcd.com.) Do we want a feature that gives us what we want, or do we want a feature that gives us expected results?

    Right about now I'm going to mention Alexander so that while he's doing his pre-read scan, he'll stop to see what his name is all about. I think I'll save the rest of this post to be written tomorrow, because being a young, single man in the prime of his life, I have nothing to do on Friday evenings.

    It's Sunday, not Friday. Friday was unbearably long, so I lacked the energy to do anything, especially sit in front of a computer for a couple more hours. Saturday I went to Swood's birthday shindig, got back, and watched StarWars Ep 4. My weekend can definitely be reduced to those couple sentences, so allow me to add unnecessary details.

    I bought Spore on Tuesday evening, and played until about midnight. I didn't know it was so simple, so I was really cautious about doing things right, and attempting to make wise decisions, which is why I only made it to the beginning of the tribal stage before going to bed. It turns out wisdom isn't a prerequisite for Spore, especially on easy mode. I didn't much like my species on Wednesday, so I started over and made some pretty fine dragons, if I do say so myself. The creature stage (second stage) is definitely my favorite. You get to fly around and eat people, or convince them to share their evolutionary secrets. I ended up getting all but four possible body parts, and had high ratings in everything but the spit combat ability. I feel bad for the poor sap who has to play against them, assuming the game doesn't nerf them. I still haven't figured out if it's possible to beat an epic monster. I'm guessing you can't before the space stage, and I haven't seen one since I began it, though I haven't played past the first tutorials. It's not a bad game, for sure, but it certainly could have been better. Right before evolving to the tribal stage, I shouldn't have been able to design a completely different creature.

    On a similar note, I've been waiting for more than a year for The Force Unleashed to come out. I've not bought it yet, because I have enough entertainment for now, and not enough money in my checking account to say I'm comfortable -- that'll change in nine days. I've heard bad things, though, that it set the bar pretty high but is only a mediocre game. I guess I'm not too surprised, but I am disappointed.

    The third thing I've been waiting for that came out this month was Brisingr, the third book in the Inheritance series. It was released yesterday, but Amazon doesn't do any orders on the weekend, so it'll ship on Monday, getting to my apartment on Thursday. I might take a personal day on Friday. I kid you not.

    Speaking of kids, I just got back from my aunt's house. They tease me a lot about not liking kids much, and they're right for the most part. I say things, purposely, that I know they won't get, but I say them in the vicinity of their parents so that they'll laugh. For example, we were watching the Hawks game, and William was talking about how he always does Hail Mary's in his Madden '08 game, even when there's no reason to. I asked, "Does she respond?" My uncle laughed a bit; William looked confused. I just hope I don't come off as rude. Tonight Lucy was complaining about having to play another game of Sequence before playing Pictionary, and the teams were uneven with her playing, so logically -- it seemed logical -- she might consider sitting out for the ten minutes it would take Ashley's boyfriend and me to lose, if and only if she wanted not to play. The words were out of my mouth before I thought logic might not be the best thing here.

    If you didn't catch that, Ashley is dating this guy now. He's not a Christian. That bothers me a lot.

    I guess I don't keep track of the dates my relationships start and end anymore. I don't know if that's an improvement or not, but it's a change. I thought Fey and I broke up about a year ago Wednesday. Turns out I broke up with her on September 11th. I miss her a lot. I know she's not right for me. Our age difference, though smaller now than a year ago (and still too big, but in a few years it wouldn't be), would still divide us. There's too much you learn between your senior year of high school and graduation day of college. She doesn't see consumerism the same way I do. It's not a bad thing, just a difference, and one I couldn't live with. Who knows, maybe in college she will change her views, the same way I did, though I never bought a seventeenth purse. I'm trying, but I can't liken that purchase to anything I've bought. I suppose you could say video games, but the way I see video games, each individual game functions differently from others; further, I enjoy the programming behind the games, trying to figure out how they did it. Maybe she sees purses functioning differently -- different purses with different outfits. I don't know. Also, I'm not sure our moral compasses are pointing to true north, neither of ours, but I'm pointing some degrees to the left, and she's pointing some degrees to the right. (Right and left here have nothing to do with conservative verses liberal.) I still miss her though. I miss tickling her, and trying to hold in the laughter (usually succeeding) when she'd fight back. Telling stories at night with her head on my shoulder -- those were perhaps my favorite times ever, with the exception of times feeling filled by the Holy Spirit. It was romantic in its own right, but it didn't need to be. It was telling my best friend different pieces of who I am and what made me and how I saw the world, and she enjoyed it, understood as best she could, and appreciated me. She was nerdy, and appreciated puns, witty banter, good writing, alternate realities, and imagination. And my was she beautiful.

    The last time I wore shorts, I was helping her parents with garden work or filling the pool or something. So, aside from swimming or sleeping or working out, it's been more than a year since I've worn shorts. So that's something to be proud of.

    Work is going. It's still up and down, but I wouldn't say the general trend is going in either direction. Some days are stressful, others are boring, waiting for your turn to make a little progress. I have a bug I basically have to fix by tomorrow. I don't know the repercussions of not fixing it by then, but I just assume I'll be on campus until it's done. I know where it is, and generally how to fix it. In fact, I remember starting to fix it before. I don't know why I couldn't finish it though. My peer mentor, whom I'm finally aliasing Sydney, has been incredibly helpful to me. I had a couple changesets to submit on Friday night, but we were having issues getting a clean build all day. (It happens.) He let me go home and checked in my changes at 10:30pm. My day had been long enough without staying four hours longer than I already had. I do hope my changes didn't break anything. For some reason I'm not getting emails on build status.

    Yesterday, as I said earlier, was Swood's birthday get together. He had invited several people, but it turned out to be him, Bra, Neo, and me. Gaul almost made it. He drove down from Bellingham, apparently passed the exit on 405 and ended up on I-5 again. He called about twenty or thirty minutes later saying he was in Seattle because he really had to go to the bathroom. We didn't hear from him after that. At the party, we watched the new Die Hard movie, then played some Nintendo, and a 2d fighter that Swood had, with the anime characters from this impossible plane game. I forget what that genre is called, where you're flying in a plane and shooting at things as the screen scrolls under you.

    I really needed to get laundry done and my apartment cleaned, but I guess that will have to wait for tomorrow. Again.

    -----------------------------------
    So if anyone is still here..once you go through something like that...do you even remember the question? I mean REALLY..its a FUCKING internet message board post..Do I really need to take fucking notes to keep up? Sheesh..
    And also Model is FAR from the only one disturbed by what has happened at the LGpedia..but frankly Ren..people either just dont give a flying FUCKING poisoned Rat's red raw bleeding rectum..OR..they just dont want to suffer your diarrhea of the fingers....basically most of us feel like we are over it..

    To Anonymous..which ever one it is..the difference between YOUR version of anonymous and Model's is..while we do not know exactly who he is...WE DO know who he is relative to his work and thoughts from the past..there is a specific entity to address and direct questions and the like to. Unlike you..whoever the Q you are..

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  132. I agree with Greystoke's last post. I have no idea what he said, I'm just afraid if I ask a question he might answer it.

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  133. AND that Math...is exactly how the WallOText Method works...force them to capitulate...just please make the text stop..PPLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE.

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  134. A weak attempt to try to discredit my posts, LGS.

    Then again, seeing the way you act and talk, it's not surprising that the idea of actually replying to all points in a discussion is foreign to you.

    If I ignored all questions and issues and only stoically repeated the same, unproven fairy tales, like model does, my replies would be nice and short as well.

    No matter what you are trying to pretend, a long answer is not invalid just because it is long.
    And if you want to accuse me of being long-winded on purpose to try to skew the discussion in my favor, I would like you to actually prove that, instead of just engaging in random libel and trolling.



    A little food for thought for everyone else reading: TJ Marsh and LGS are undeniably among the more "controversial" figures of the community. How often have you seen them in recent months, especially in discussions?
    Do you believe it is a coincidence they both show up right here, right in this discussion, just when model sees he has no support among his own commenters? Do you believe it is a coincidence they both immediately, violently tried to steer the discussion off topic, tried to disrupt it, and, when that didn't work either, openly tried to discredit my posts with fallacious argumentations and unproven accusations?

    Don't you think it's a little convenient that the worst of the trolls all come out and try to ruin the discussion, just when model is in a very uncomfortable position, discussion-wise?

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  135. in multiple replies.

    Would that help you?

    Or can you just openly admit that each individual answer I give to each individual quote of his is actually only a paragraph or two, and I simply reply to all of them at once?

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  136. (For the bemused onlookers, memorize this moment...you will see it a lot in discussions like this. They ran out of arguments, so they immediately switched to attacking me personally and my posting style, rather than replying to the facts and questions inside my posts. It's a cheap tactic, the tactic of the losers - but quite common.)

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  137. (Did I mention that the entire "wall of text" argument is invalid anyway, 'cause it's only a "wall of text" due to model's blog design, which only leaves only 485px of width for the comments [out of a possible 1024+]? If you click on "Post a comment" and look at my posts in the comment popup, at a reasonable [i.e. post-1985] width, you'll see that there's not much of a wall there - and formatting to support readability.

    But hey, who cares for facts around here?)

    (So...is this better than having all in one post?)

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  138. One score and ten months ago, the Creators brought forth on this internet a new wiki, conceived in Liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all editors are creating EQAL.

    Now we are engaged in a great flame war, testing whether that wiki, or any wiki, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.

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  139. "I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him. "

    Also Abraham Lincoln.

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  140. 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    Frankly thats what your posts make people want to do.
    As to Libel Ren..Look in the mirror..as to fallacious arguments..look in the mirror..as to unproven accusations..Look in the mirror.
    You engage in as much unsupported supposition as anyone else posting..
    You speculate that I suddenly show up and post..The bot posts links regularly when I am around and not around to various stories..usually I dont even look much less comment...but I saw the excessive bloviation and being a prime bloviater myself..I jumped in..cause I felt like it..
    If ModelMotion followed the lead of the LGpedia..this comment thread would have been locked over 100 posts ago..
    AS to MM lacking support...thats cause most people are like I am these days...WHO gives a fuck...turn out the lights and lock the door at Eqal...say hello to the second Great Depression...Say Hello to 15% unemployment...say Hello to erosions of free speech..say Hello to Narco Gang Violence..Say Hello to war on the N.Korean Peninsula..Say hello to Nuclear War in the Middle East..Say hell to me wishing I was going to be wrong about ALL of it..but not being very hopeful..so frankly with regards to all this silly shit..who fucking cares...its just preparing you for your future in a country filled with Censorship.

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  141. no doubt tyler asked to be deleted because he didn't want to be associated with the horror of coding that is lg15.com

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  142. y'all guys are actin like FAGS...grow up.

    RESPEC' YOSELFS....FOR U RECK YOSELFS.

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  143. @LGS:
    Can you prove any of that? Can you show up anything on the issue I said that is not based in fact?


    Can you do anything but lame attempts of dragging this thread off topic?
    (I'm curious, what are you getting out of covering model's ass here? Better coverage for an upcoming series or something? "LordGreystoke2009: The Last Resistance"?)


    If you do manage to fabricate something I supposedly said on the issue that was not sourced, I'll happily do my burden of proof justice (if it exists).
    Then again, given model's lack of sources for basically anything he said in the article, the score would be what? One to a dozen unsourced claims?
    Not counting your long string of unformatted, unproven claims and allegations?

    @model:
    All questions still stand. Are you a news reporter or a news commenter?

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  144. @Ren...geez yer easy..

    You said..

    "Can you prove any of that? Can you show up anything on the issue I said that is not based in fact?


    Can you do anything but lame attempts of dragging this thread off topic?
    (I'm curious, what are you getting out of covering model's ass here? Better coverage for an upcoming series or something? "LordGreystoke2009: The Last Resistance"?)"

    I am sorry? what part of that is not unproven claims and allegations? You make CONSTANT UNSUPPORTED claims and allegations towards anyone that does not agree with you. Just because you posted a 60k character post does not mean that is sourced..and just because you sourced SOME of your allegations does not mean that you sourced ALL of them. SO frankly sir..until you hold yourself to your own standard..Have a coke and a smile and STFU.

    Indeed..I posted a LOT of shit off topic here..I frankly haven't read 95% of this A-1 clusterfuck.. MY POSTS were to make the point of you are bloviating excessively.. And..I have strong interest in Economic History..because damn near everyone else is ignorant on it..I can source the FUCK out of everything I said on THAT subject if you would like..and FRANKLY...Bringing up FDR actually DOES have relevance when talking about movements away from personal freedom. But Frankly...I posted that stuff in the hopes that maybe one person might garner an interest in it..and the fact that I enjoyed writing it all off the top of my head.

    Also..with regards to coverage for a New Series..I haven't watched this shit since all the way back at Motel Tryst...I have not the foggiest what the fuck is going on..but if I DID do something..I wouldnt have to do a DAMN thing to get stellar coverage here..because a segment of this community views me as VERY relevant for some inexplicable reason..

    As to WHY I am posting here..because I argued extensively against your control freak move at the LGpedia relative to User Generated Content..granted AFTER the horse was already being forgotten..but you are really pathetic..you critique every little thing that other people do..

    Look..its not our fault that no matter what you did..Vati never thought it was good enough..or whatever it may be that causes your malfunction. And Yes..that IS a personal attack..because personally..I dont fucking like you. You are overbearing and abusive to others that do nothing to deserve it..You are domineering and insecure and utilize this medium as a way to compensate for whatever deep seeded feelings of inadequacy that you feel. Sure you tell yourself you're great..but the way you go OUT of your way to attack the work of others when frankly..I am unsure of what you have contributed to this community anywhere that didnt in some way hinder or deconstruct or damage someone else's work in some way,
    Schwanzlutscher. You call TJ and myself Controversial.. WELL Mr Pot..I Mr Kettle and My associate Mr. Coal are indeed black. You want controversy? I can repost that discussion on the UGC revamp that you posted on the pedia..would that be ample source to evidence the CONTROVERSY that you yourself so greatly fostered if not created?

    As to naming names...when the fuck is BK gonna name the names of the actors that wanted their Pedia pages removed? Until then..until you hold the SOURCE of the problem to the same standard you care to hold ModelMotion to..Frankly sir..Die in a fire..

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  145. Renegade, I was hoping you might help me out again.

    I've been trying to get an LGPedia page about my work deleted.

    You might be aware that some of my work has been featured at the lonelygirl15 site, and that I have been mentioned in both an lg15 video and a NikkiBowerReport video.

    I suggest that my request to have that page deleted is no different than an investor requesting deletion. My investment may have been my time instead of millions of my dollars, but it was an investment nonetheless.

    I've tagged the page for deletion more than once, but to no avail.

    Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

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  146. I'm VERY UPSET.

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  147. Sorry Apo, but I'm neither a contributor nor admin on LGPedia. There's nothing more I can do than you already did.
    Besides, given that your pages are tagged as fanfic, it might be very hard to get them deleted - thanks to Fox News campaign by model a while ago, which successfully vilified any pedia editor who even dares thinking about deleting a UGC-related page.

    In other words, thanks to the fear of "OMG THE PEDIA IS CRACKING DOWN ON FANFIC AGAIN! THEY ARE ALL EQAL-SHILLS!!" few of the people who've been around back then would touch anything marked UGC.
    I guess the easiest way to get rid of your stuff would betalking to FH14 directly.

    @LGS:
    "I am sorry? what part of that is not unproven claims and allegations? [...]"
    What of that is not unproven claims? Basically everything.

    "Indeed..I posted a LOT of shit off topic here..I frankly haven't read 95% of this A-1 clusterfuck.."

    "As to WHY I am posting here..because I argued extensively against your control freak move at the LGpedia relative to User Generated Content."

    "And Yes..that IS a personal attack..because personally..I dont fucking like you."

    These quotes say more than I could say in a reply. Thanks for your trolling, LGS. You may leave now.
    For anyone else, I will gladly source anything left that may be unsourced, or retract it if I can't. I am unaware of such a statement, and the only one who claimed there was one was someone who admitted to not having read "95% of this A-1 clusterfuck". Therefore, I have no reason to believe there is one.

    So yeah...if anyone who has actually read the thread sees holes in my argumentation, feel free to point them out. In the meantime, let us all ponder the fact that model has mysteriously vanished without answering any questions or backing up any of the claims in his post.

    Maybe he has gained invisibility from hanging out too much with his giant crowd of invisible supporters?

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  148. @ Ren

    Then show the proof for the allegations you have made regarding me.

    You made other allegations that Originz was TJ..It was not..and it was not I...it WAS the same person that gave the answers under the NOTMODELMOTION name.. You're smart...figure it out...I did..His writing style and sense of humor are rather obvious..

    Also..you accuse me of trolling.. It amazes me that such PURE trolls are always so fast to accuse others of trolling..its what you did/do...SIT under the bridge waiting for unknowing and unsuspecting travelers to show up at the bridge that is LG15chat..How's that working out there...busy room..good job..as to my sourcing for YOU being a troll...scroll up...its right there..if ya need more..I can dig up that talk discussion from the UGC revamp fanfic..
    Its what you do..its your method of argument. WRITE THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN..make repeated fallacious statements and arguments until everyone finally says " I have a life..and things to do..I do not have a hour 4 times a day to answer questions on a message board and arguments from someone that will never BUDGE from a fallacious standpoint.

    Also..once again..What have you ever contributed to this community that was of a creative and constructive nature..that did not tear down or hinder someone else's work?

    Just because Model gave answers you dont find acceptable does not mean he didnt give them..
    Its funny I picked up things from this A1 cluster fuck of which I havent even read half yet..that you missed...You are not anywhere near as sharp as you think..and you Owe TJ an apology.

    Additionally you wrote.
    "thanks to Fox News campaign by model a while ago, which successfully vilified any pedia editor who even dares thinking about deleting a UGC-related page."
    and
    " let us all ponder the fact that model has mysteriously vanished without answering any questions or backing up any of the claims in his post.

    Maybe he has gained invisibility from hanging out too much with his giant crowd of invisible supporters?"
    I could go on and on..because your easy..you do the things you claim others do all the time.. You have not actually addressed any of MY questions..and I didnt have to read more than 5% of this A-1 clusterfuck to ask specific questions which you brushed aside..
    Frankly, You are incapable of meeting the standard you try to hold others to...but that is typical of a hypocrite and that is exactly what you are...to the core.
    But you will once again attempt to brush me aside as just a troll or someone that is controversial or uninformed...but thats because you lack the intellectual honesty necessary to have an actual discussion..you should be in politics..Fascism seems to suit you well.

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  149. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/concise?qsrc=2888

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  150. Anonymous..Concise does not ever EXIST where ren is involved...I thought I was verbose but..he makes me feel like a mute. I can link you to the UGC/fanfic revamp talk discussion for a great example of what concise is NOT..and for why nobody wants to answer anything he has to say. The reason it may SEEM modelmotion has invisible supporters is because after being bent over for a Japanese Bullet train...without lube.. on numerous occasions by the Cs..and for having experienced way too many fights with OCD organizers on the Pedia..under varying administrations..people just really dont give a fuck. They have better ways to spend their time than fighting the Hitler Youth.

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  151. @Ren..starting with your first post..OHHHH the contradictions..let me count the ways...
    Ren wrote

    "oooooh, it's Fox News time again?
    Awesome! *gets his discussion hat*


    No, seriously. To provide the information our favorite populist left out, the deleted pages are"

    Ok...Populism is typically considered to be more closely associated with the Democratic party and the sorts of policies they encact..

    Fox News is often considered to be a Republican oriented News organization..
    I however think their slant is center right whereas the "regular" news and CNN,etc are firmly on the left.
    More to come...

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  152. @LGS:
    Which allegations are left unproven?
    As far as I can tell, I have only talked to you twice before in this thread - and the large majority of that was asking you what the hell you were talking about - something you have yet to reply to.

    About the LG15Originz thing...again, you're just spouting random imaginations of yours, while I'm looking at the facts:
    March 5, 2009 9:01 PM -> TJ Marsh posting
    March 5, 2009 9:05 PM -> LG15Originz posting

    March 5, 2009 9:07 PM -> TJ Marsh posting
    March 5, 2009 9:08 PM -> LG15Originz posting, pointing to a domain registered to TJ Marsh

    March 5, 2009 9:36 PM -> LG15Originz posting
    March 5, 2009 9:36 PM -> TJ Marsh posting
    Once is a coincidence. Every time, with Originz directly promoting his stuff? Unlikely. If you want to out yourself as the puppet master behind the unregistered opposition, go right ahead - I don't mind. Only proves that those posts were just noise, irrelevant to the topic. Until you do - any claim that you know who it is, and that my assumption is wrong, is just another unproven claim of yours.

    As for calling you a troll, and yet another round of trying to discredit my posts without any evidence: The challenge still stands - point out the exact instances, and I will reply.
    But the facts stand: You openly admitted to not having read 95% of this thread, and to only posting to attack my posts ("MY POSTS were to make the point of you are bloviating excessively"/"As to WHY I am posting here..because I argued extensively against your control freak move at the LGpedia relative to User Generated Content").
    So...yes. I am calling you a troll. Based on your own admission that you have posted off topic, haven't read the thread, and are solely here to attack my posts. (Not to mention the admission "I dont fucking like you", and personal attacks like "you are really pathetic".)

    Not that it's any of your business, but I have contributed a variety of material to the community, from illustrations, over entertainment and informational videos, I have laid the foundation and contributed the vast majority of many of the templates currently in use on the pedia, I have designed or contributed to the design of several of the portals on the pedia, I have provided audio records of BreeFM for those who couldn't be there, I have operated a pedia support bot in the past to automate mundane tasks, I am currently operating a bot in chat that enjoys popularity, not to mention thousands of content edits on the pedia outside of discussions as well as helping newbies get into pedia editing or into the basics of chat.

    I could try to ask back what you have ever contributed to the community, outside of a mediocre series none of the new people has ever seen, that ended what? two years ago?, but hell - for one, the answer is very most likely "nothing" anyway, and for two, it's irrelevant. We're not here to discuss contributions. We're here to discuss how far from reality model's claim of an "attack" on LGPedia are. Everything else are just cheap attempts by you to divert the discussion and to attack me.

    So, back on topic: Feel free to point out where in model's "this is censorship!!!!!" posts he actually answered my questions. Where he actually answered who the "many" people who "have come to see this censorship as a shallow attempt [...]" are. Where he actually answered whether we should see him as a news reporter or a news commenter. Where he actually explained why the pages being locked should be regarded as a significant number of pages being locked of the set locked pages, instead of counting it against the whole set of pages.
    Feel free to point any of that out.

    You constantly repeat phrases like "you do the things you claim others do all the time" or "You are incapable of meeting the standard you try to hold others to", and yet, after all these long posts, you still fail to prove it. The only thing you achieved so far was copy-pasting a wall of text from walloftext.net. That's it. And that wasn't even on topic. The rest is just guesswork, unproven claims you know more than me or everyone else, and unsourced allegations against me.
    You're just blabbering, old man. Nothing more.

    And your next post continues as usual:
    "Ok...Populism is typically considered to be more closely associated with the Democratic party and the sorts of policies they encact.."
    Unsourced for one, and irrelevant anyway - because even if populism would be associated with the democrats, that does not automatically mean that Fox News is not populist, and it does not automatically mean that model is not a populist.

    But given everything you have posted so far, it doesn't surprise me you'd resort to such tactics in a cheap attempt to confuse anyone who might be left reading.

    ReplyDelete
  153. I cannot believe that.

    *dumps this conversation into the 436*

    Not because of censorship.

    Because if you want people to listen you, state your point. If they do not respond, you state it again.

    Then you leave it alone.

    PS I am known in the LG15 world as grace2_89. If y'all want my real name, it's Angie. I'm not hiding.

    *throws hands up in the air*

    ReplyDelete
  154. Um...actually...

    -> March 9, 2009 10:40 PM
    -> March 13, 2009 12:20 AM

    ...we did leave it alone >_>

    ReplyDelete




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